possible bee theft!!!!! what to do??

[calum81]

Hi all, I visited my bees last week and they where doing fine, had a peek today to see no brood and just dead bees it is almost like some has removed the brood frames and the queen. I searched for a dead queen but could find not find her. Last week when I looked there was brood. What should I do? Call the police? Any advice would be a great help. Calum

[snimmo243]

Is it possible that you chilled the brood when you looked last week? Are all the bees dead? Are frames missing?

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[gavin]

Are frames missing?


OK, if you have frames missing, someone stole them and you should call the police. If the frames are there and you had brood last week then the only way someone would have taken them would be by doing a shook swarm. Unlikely.

Otherwise, drone layer, starvation, weak colony just teetering on, these seem like the only possibilities. You should be able to tell these ones from a look inside. Is there any brood left and what does it look like? Were there stores?

I have heard of the theft of queens, but I doubt that a healthy colony would die quickly if that happened.

[Jon]

I have heard of the theft of queens, but I doubt that a healthy colony would die quickly if that happened.

Even a poor colony would start to make queen cells if a queen was removed and would last quite a while.

Calum, how many bees were in the box last week? Normal for spring might be 10,000 covering 5-6 frames at this point.
A prolific colony would have the box completely full of bees already.

I know of one association apiary locally where 4 frames were removed from the centre of a colony in springtime and they are pretty sure it was an inside job!
Are your bees in a place where anyone can gain access?

[calum81]

Thanks for the reply guys. Last week there was over two frames of bees? Just under a third of fondant left, some honey stores too. No evidence of a queen cells being made. Last year I had a laying worker problem with another hive. When I looked today there must of been 200 dead bees on the comb and all frames where clean, with no evidence of brood ever being there at all? Last week the bees where flying bring in gorse?

[calum81]

No frames are missing, I am baffled

[calum81]

The bees where in a easy accessible place, there are tyre tracks leading up to the site that where not there last week.

[snimmo243]

Did the bees that are dead on the comb have their heads inside the cells

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[gavin]

March is said to be the month when most colonies die out. Those that became weak for whatever reason can go downhill quickly. If there is a queen problem the remaining bees (often looking more numerous at the tops of the frames but which are not covering the frames) can jump to a nearby queen-right colony, if there is one. Sometimes I've seen colonies alongside failing ones come through winter particularly strong because of this.

But if you saw good worker brood last week this doesn't quite add up. Was it just a small patch?

Steven is right, heads down in the cells suggests starvation, at least for these bees. You can also get a mat of dead bees in a small remaining cluster pressed onto the frame when they've starved. For a small colony it could be a mix of all of these - queen problems, too small a unit, isolation starvation even if there were still stores in the box.

Still, every loss is an opportunity to understand a bit better! Theft doesn't sound like the most likely problem, but you never know. Is there anyone local you can call on to take a look?

[Jon]

Given the size of the colony it was barely viable.
A 2 frame colony needs to be in a well insulated nuc with the space inside reduced as much as possible with insulated dummy frames and even then survival is not guaranteed at this time of year.
Sounds like there were very few bees and the colony was on its last legs. What area was the brood patch you saw last week?
Sorry for your loss but as Gavin says, March is when you lose the stragglers. Not enough bees combined with isolation starvation sounds like the problem.

[fatshark]

It's also when the queen starts to lay again in earnest and the winter bees are needed to keep the brood warm just as they're dying off from old age … I've lost a couple of small nucs in the last 3 weeks or so through a combination of these factors. Poorly mated queens from late autumn and too few bees in the box. It's always tough to get them this far and then lose them, but preferable - as Jon says - to lose these stragglers now.

[Neils]

Two frames of bees, as opposed to brood, is small. If bees have been stolen you have a big gap where the hive used to be, no-one takes the bees and leaves the hive, especially not the frames.

We had a site that we thought was vandalised until we thought it through, everything was scattered except for the hives with bees which were fine. Either very careful vandals or the storms just shredded everything not weighed and stuck down.

From your original post, and without anything else to go on, starvation is a possible cause with others as Gavin mentions also likely. This is a "good" time for colonies to die. As a Beekeeper you peek under the roof or crown board, see bees and think they'll be ok, a week or two later and it's a near empty box.

I do think an important point to stress here is that you've possibly done nothing wrong. It absolutely sucks that you've lost your bees, I think I'm pretty much safe in saying that everyone has experienced this at one point or another. I hope you bounce back from it because this is a hard lesson to experience, but it does happen, if it doesn't put you off, it will make you a better beekeeper

[snimmo243]

I'm pretty much safe in saying that everyone has experienced this at one point or another. I hope you bounce back from it because this is a hard lesson to experience, but it does happen, if it doesn't put you off, it will make you a better beekeeper

I've been there, I went into winter 12/13 with 2 colonies, the one that seemed to have the better preparation died to isolation starvation, ok I thought one colony left, when I did my first inspection found a drone laying queen so I had to start from scratch, lots of lessons learned!

I hope the bees have not been stolen and you can restock this year, I'm sure someone from this forum will help you out Callum, if you are looking for bees let me know and assuming all goes to plan I will help


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[gavin]

I hope the bees have not been stolen and you can restock this year, I'm sure someone from this forum will help you out Callum, if you are looking for bees let me know and assuming all goes to plan I will help


Excellent sentiments. I was just thinking of posting something similar. So I will. If those were your last bees and if I'm nearer then get in touch and I'll help you out.

Hit the name on the left and it takes you to the Private Message option.

[Trog]

If the frames are now empty of stores, I suspect robbing ... not by humans but by another colony. Unfortunately the better flying weather means other bees are also out and about and they can quickly overcome a weak colony and take everything so the bees left in the hive starve very quickly. You could send a matchbox of the freshest dead bees to SASA to rule out disease.