Pollen identification

[snimmo243]

Hi
When I was up at the bees on Sunday I noticed they were bringing in cream/off white pollen, I've checked the sheffield pollen matrix and the Beeman website but can't pinpoint a source that is relevant to this time of year, any ideas?

Steven

[gavin]

There is still some hazel around. I've just restarted our airborne pollen counts for the season and it is still turning up.

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[snimmo243]

Thanks Gavin, So the off white is hazel? I've seen it in flower I suppose I got a bit confused as the Sheffield site has hazel in the summer section. What is an airborne pollen count?
Steven

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[gavin]

Could well be hazel. It flowers Jan to March Other possibilities exist - winter heathers maybe?

We count pollen for a national network and the data is used for forecasts on the BBC and elsewhere in the media. This will give you the idea.

http://www.hutton.ac.uk/webfm_send/532

G.

[GRIZZLY]

Thats realy interesting Gavin.

[gavin]

Hazel has faded away here in the last week or so. You may still have been seeing it in later areas, but elm has become more abundant in the airborne count. The American species has pollen loads of this colour - anyone seen UK bees on elm?

Some of the Prunus species also have light grey pollen so maybe that is a possibility too.

Bit of a hoolie out there today before it turns cold for a few days, so I guess foraging will be limited for a while.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Some of my bees come home covered in bright orange pollen. Can somebody please tell me what it might be? According to the Sheffield pollen chart it seems that it might be dandelion - could that be right? I add a photo taken with my phone, so it's not very good. By the time the phone camera clicked, the bee had almost disappeared. Next to the orange bee I can see two with OSR foreheads - not surprising, they're next to an OSR field.
Kitta
2020

[HJBee]

I have seen the same, thought it could of been Gorse as plenty near by and similar in colour?

[Bumble]

I thought that the bright orange was dandelion when I saw it on my bees.

Some of mine have been bringing in a pale cream coloured pollen today, huge jodhpurs of the stuff, but the only one like it on the online colour charts is Balsam. it can't be that because it's too early, so does anybody know what it might be? sorry, there are no helpful pictures, but I could try to get some tomorrow.

[snimmo243]

I thought that the bright orange was dandelion when I saw it on my bees.

Some of mine have been bringing in a pale cream coloured pollen today, huge jodhpurs of the stuff, but the only one like it on the online colour charts is Balsam. it can't be that because it's too early, so does anybody know what it might be? sorry, there are no helpful pictures, but I could try to get some tomorrow.

Hi bumble
Could the cream be sycamore?

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[gavin]

I suspect that the orange Kitta photographed is broom. See this video for the typical pattern bees get from 'tripping' the flowers of broom.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G3xSvhasX0&feature=youtu.be

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks Gavin - it's a nice little video. I've often watched my bees on the gorse bushes, HJB, and never saw them covered like this. Now I'll carefully watch the brooms as well.
Kitta

[gavin]

The video shows well how the bees get the pattern you often see on its back. First it sits on an untripped flower, and scrabbles on the keel petal (the lower one) where the pollen is already being pushed out. Most pea family flowers are like this, with pollen being pushed out of the end of the keel petal when an insect exerts downward pressure on it. The anthers are inside and a slight pushing down motion pushes them up inside and sometimes even pipes pollen out as if it was in one of those bags cooks use to squeeze out decorative goo on baking. Then the flower pops open and the bee turns round and sticks its head down the way (for more pollen or nectar?). As it goes down the anthers rub its back. As it goes in from the side it gets a side rub on its back as well as an overall rub which explains the pattern you often see on the thorax of those painted bees at this time of year.

[Floyd]

I am surrounded by Gorse and have yet to see any bees forage on it. Even when there is very little else in flower. Which is mightly frustrating as it would be an excellant early and continual crop for them.

[HJBee]

Thanks Gavin - it's a nice little video. I've often watched my bees on the gorse bushes, HJB, and never saw them covered like this. Now I'll carefully watch the brooms as well.
Kitta

Now we know! Makes sense the way they are covered.

[Bumble]

Hi bumble
Could the cream be sycamore? Ah, that looks about right on this chart. Assuming Sycamore is Maple. http://www.the-beeman.co.uk/pollen-colour-17-w.asp

Thanks

[gavin]

I don't think that the Beeman's guide is based on local information, looks like he's 'imported' it from somewhere. Sycamore pollen is olive-green.

See this photo from beespoke.info - an Irish native beekeeping website.

http://beespoke.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/MoreSycamore.jpg

http://beespoke.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/MoreSycamore-1038x576.jpg

[Bumble]

Oh bother! So it's not Sycamore, and it isn't Balsam.

[snimmo243]

Today my bees were bringing in orange pollen, they also had it all over their backs, any ideas?

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[snimmo243]

Sorry just reread the thread and realise it's broom

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[snimmo243]

My bees seem to be bringing in some osr today and a light green pollen could this be lime

[gavin]

Lime is greenish yellow according to the books (Wedmore, Hooper). But there are several species, so maybe there is variation.

Pure green at this time of year could be meadowsweet.

[snimmo243]

Hi gavin it was a kind of dirty light green I wouldn't describe it as pure green, the others were bringing in yellow with a yellow dot on their heads

[gavin]

Hi gavin it was a kind of dirty light green I wouldn't describe it as pure green, the others were bringing in yellow with a yellow dot on their heads

I'll keep an eye out, but I think that lime may be one of the flowers that leaves a mark on the face.

I seem to recall lime pollen being greenish. This photo from Zach Huang's website shows the related basswood (Tilia americana) as greeny-yellow:

http://www.beetography.com/Honey-Bees/1-Western-Honey-Bees/520802_4GWJCz/26617307_m2Vt2.html

http://www.beetography.com/Honey-Bees/1-Western-Honey-Bees/basswood-DSC4394/26617307_m2Vt2-M-7.jpg

[chris]

Here, we have mainly the broad leafed lime, and the pollen is greenish yellow.

[scaie]

On the subject of pollen, just been in a couple of my hives and the pollen looks mouldy. Both been waiting for their queen to mate and lay, it that why the pollen is going off ?

[gavin]

Here, we have mainly the broad leafed lime, and the pollen is greenish yellow.

I think that our lime trees are sometimes that one, often the hybrid between it and the small leaved lime, and less frequently another species.

Yesterday evening (about 8:30) the bees were working the lime trees and back at the hives there was a steady stream of heavy-looking slightly clumsy and unmarked bees returning home. They're getting something from lime but the soil is really dry and I don't expect a major flow unless there is significant rain.

Mouldy pollen suggests that there are not enough bees. Usually they coat it with honey to help preserve it.

[GRIZZLY]

We were amazed at the diversity of pollen in Andrew Abrahams pollen trap at our weekend in Colonsay. Everything from pale green Meadowsweet to red Dead nettle and every sort of colour in between. I meant to take a pellet of each sort but forgot and left it too late , pity really. Clover fantastic round here at the moment , just hope it secretes this year now we've had a bit of rain for the first time in six weeks.

[HJBee]

Has anyone any experience of IBRA's pollen identification cards? Accurate and relevant to Scotland?

[gavin]

Not the Pollen Cards (http://ibrastore.org.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=201) but the Guide (http://ibrastore.org.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2&products_id=2)that was published some years earlier. I seem to recall that the guide was useful but not always accurate. Maybe the pollen cards are better. At only £4 they're bound to be a useful investment.

[HJBee]

Thanks Gavin

[snimmo243]

I've seen the cards and bought the book earlier this year. The cards seem to be the same as the book the only extra thing is they tell you if the plant provides nectar and/or pollen. If you are planning on identifying pollen as the bees fly into the hive DO NOT buy any of these two items. They are only accurate if you are catching pollen in a trap, off the varroa floor or catch the bees and prise the pollen out of their baskets. The book in particular has some convoluted observation method where you've to look at the pollen on a piece of white card facing north!

[Mellifera Crofter]

... The book in particular has some convoluted observation method where you've to look at the pollen on a piece of white card facing north!

I don't know the books or the cards, Steven, but I think the method you described is probably a good way to get an identification that's as accurate as possible.
Kitta

[Emma]

This is my first post on the forum, hope it turns up in the right place! Yesterday I saw busy foraging from my apiary again, first time since the willowherb petered out. I'm also seeing foragers with pale, whitish marks on them. Not long bars on their backs, just little triangular marks on their heads, between the eyes. Might it be from Himalayan balsam?
Emma

[Mellifera Crofter]

I wonder if you're the Emma I know? Either way - it's nice to see you posting, and sorry - I don't know the answer!
Kitta

[SteveW316]

Hi Everyone

I've notice the fields around me are full of what looks like kyle, and is flowering with a yellow flower.

Does anyone know what colour the pollen is from Kyle and weather it is good for the girls? I've tried to find out on line with no luck. I must be getting too old!!

Thanks
Steve

[Jon]

Hi Emma. That will be balsam all right. The bees are all over it at the moment.

[gavin]

Ah, *that* Emma ;)

My bees seem to be on balsam but rather than full-on mega-stripes down the back they seem to have (some of them) little spots on the thorax. Are the Himalayan balsam flowers bigger this year .... or the bees smaller?! I'm thinking they can perhaps limbo-dance under the giant paintbrush over their heads when they squeeze in. And of course some may slip in the side entrance rather than the front door.

Some on Himalayan balsam do seem to end up with dusty faces. See this picture from a blog:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-O0LuIllbYb4/Tni71CUOeVI/AAAAAAAAAFs/GBCliX9oY6Y/s1600/bee+images+025.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-O0LuIllbYb4/Tni71CUOeVI/AAAAAAAAAFs/GBCliX9oY6Y/s1600/bee+images+025.JPG

Steve - do you mean kale? If so, yes, the bees love it. Yellow flowers, yellow nutritious pollen as is that of most brassicas. If there is enough of it, it will do them a power of good.

[SteveW316]

Hi Gavin

Kale... senior moment!! One problem is that it is covered in netting to prevent attack from flies!! There's acres of it.

[Emma]

Hi Kitta,
Yes, I'm certainly an Emma that you know! - we've met at ADBKA meetings, but I bide in Fife now.
Nice to be on the forum at last :)
Emma

[Emma]

Hi Gavin,
Yup, that Emma :) I've been too busy showing off the dusty medieval tower this weekend to get online again till now. But I did get to my apiary again this evening, and the foraging was interesting. There's definitely a flow on. It's definitely strong in the evening - second time that they were still going for it at 5:30pm, while lunchtimes have been quite quiet. And this time I saw bees who had both the little pale triangles on the front of their heads, and yellow pollen loads on their baskets. I'm increasingly sure the yellow is ivy. There's a lot of it round here, and I walked past some yesterday that was loud with bee flies and wasps.
So maybe my pets aren't close enough to find balsam, after all. Their powdered noses were much less dramatic than the photo you've posted. Pity!!
Right, I'm off to browse photos of bees foraging ivy...
Emma

[Mellifera Crofter]

... I'm certainly an Emma that you know! ...

Not just 'an' Emma - but *that* Emma (to quote Gavin). I'm glad my guess was right. You may be in Fife now, but no doubt I'll see you around again soon enough. It sounds as though your bees are lucky to have a very good autumn home with all that forage around them.

Kitta

[gavin]

Just wondering out loud about the ivy. The pollen is a deep yellow - and I think a pattern on the face would be yellow rather than whitish.

The Russian vine (Fallopia baldschuanica) is out now and quite conspicuous in suburbia. Anyone know what colour of pollen it gives (seems whitish in this photo), and whether bees get their faces marked with it (you could imagine these short stamens doing the business)?

http://www.wildfind.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/Vollansicht/03_pflanzenbilder/schlingknoeterich/wildfind_schlingknoeterich_img4141.jpg

[GRIZZLY]

My bees are foraging in the Himalayan balsam at the moment - they're coming back with the traditional stripe - but a lot of them have only dusty white faces. We also seem to have a late flush of willowherb as well. Our fuscias are being worked and also have a white pollen.

[Emma]

On Saturday I was finally seeing a few of the classic white balsam marks. Also noticing that some of the face triangles look yellow, some look paler. So they've found both ivy and Himalayan balsam. Yes!!!

They are indeed lucky little cats, Kitta. I'm guiltily pleased to be so close to that particular Invasive Non-Native Species. A far cry from much of agricultural Aberdeenshire. Don't think they'd have done so well in my out-apiary last year, though they were getting a lot of ivy, quite late on, in Aberdeen itself.

There's a quite distinctive smell, too, which I also noticed from one of the city colonies last year. Odd, and a bit sour. Last year I indulged in a brief panic that it was some bee disease, but I rapidly concluded it was something they were foraging. I thought it was the propolis they were finding at that end of the year; I'm now wondering whether it's the smell of ivy honey. Maybe a comination of the two? Certainly wasn't disease: that colony have thrived relentlessly all year.

Emma

[Mellifera Crofter]

... There's a quite distinctive smell, too, which I also noticed from one of the city colonies last year. Odd, and a bit sour. Last year I indulged in a brief panic that it was some bee disease, but I rapidly concluded it was something they were foraging. I thought it was the propolis they were finding at that end of the year; I'm now wondering whether it's the smell of ivy honey. Maybe a comination of the two? Certainly wasn't disease: that colony have thrived relentlessly all year.

Emma, I wonder whether the smell you noticed might have come from ragwort? I've just been reading Ted Hooper's description of ragwort in 'Guide to Bees and Honey' (p.235). He said it has an 'offensive odour' but that the smell goes once it has granulated. Kirk and Howes in 'Plants for Bees' said it is called 'stinking Willie' in Scotland! There's always some ragwort growing around here, but I've not noticed a smell or heard it being called Stinking Willie.
Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/people/cumber.htm
Stinking Billie himself

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thank you, DR - it's good to know the reasons for names!
Kitta