Planting a field

[crabbitdave]

Hi all, am looking for some ideas and advice as I keep my bees at my father inlaws farm, when I say farm they don't grow anything besides grass, I asked him if I could plant one of the field with clover or something my bees would like, does anyone know where to buy it or do you think there is something better I could plant that didn't need to be harvested and would come up every year, as the tractors should be on the antiques road show :)


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[snimmo243]

Hi Dave I will speak to Ben he may be able to help/advise but I suppose you have two options depending on how long you can use the field, a one off crop or longer term a meadow!

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[crabbitdave]

Thanks Steven, I thinking about a meadow, the top fields about 2 acre and it been unused for 10 years plus it did have wheat then tatties but they don't use any of the fields at all now :(


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[nemphlar]

If its half decent grass the only thing that'll compete is white clover

[snimmo243]

Get it ploughed up and stick some osr in it in the autumn :-)

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[snimmo243]

Here's a link about planting meadows from the royal horticultural society - now is the time mate!
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=436

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[snimmo243]

Planting clover seed mix

Sowing clover seed mixtures
Clover seed can be sown much in the same way as grass-only seed mixtures except more attention must be paid to timing and depth of sowing. Clover requires at least 7°C before satisfactory germination and therefore sowing should take place from mid March in most districts. Clover can be sown at any point through the summer provided that sufficient soil moisture is available but it must not be sown too late in the autumn. Mid September is considered by most to be the latest safe time but not clovers can grow later if warm conditions allow. Ryegrass-only leys can often be sown later than this with satisfactory results. Clover will not germinate satisfactorily if it is sown too deep.*

Clover leys can be sown directly or undersown to spring cereals. (If undersown it is important to reduce the cereal rate to two thirds so that the cereal is not too competitive.) The seed can be broadcasting or drilled. Although very accurate, cereal drills should be used with care as they can bury the seed too deeply.

Lack of consolidation at sowing time can result in poor establishment. Too frequently, it can be observed that headlands and wheelings have establishing clovers, but elsewhere there may be none. This is often attributed to a lack of consolidation. Clover seeds are smaller than most grasses and need to be sown into a well prepared and consolidated seedbed so that moisture can travel from soil particles to the seed. Clovers are more vulnerable to drought after sowing than grasses. This is because grasses have several root tips which emerge at different times whereas clovers have just one. It is therefore essential to roll before and after sowing for a successful take. Robert Handy of Andoversford, Cheltenham had three golden rules when it came to sowing clover leys. 1. Roll. 2. Roll and 3. Roll again. Robin Hill of Cotswold Seeds claims that you should be able to ride a bicycle across the seedbed prior to sowing. These illustrate the requirement to roll.



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[snimmo243]

I can drive a tractor

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[beejazz]

I have accessed this thread by clicking on "Planting a field" from the general forum section. If I had clicked on Everything and anything bit, I would get a whole page of spam, somebody trying to sell 'pills', it takes the form of a blog, forum. I've let Gavin know about it but he can't find anything, and says it could be a problem at my end, but I don't otherwise have a problem except when on here. It don't happen with Firefox only IE, can anybody suggest a fix or what has happened? sorry for straying off topic! Is it affecting anybody else?

[crabbitdave]

Hi Steven, am going to speak to my brother inlaw the first day he's sober about where the roller has gone too, I know where the plough is, I was just trying to find out you thought was the best thing to plant, that didn't need me to turn from a joiner into a farm lol


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[snimmo243]

Depending on how much you want to spend in terms of money and time you could plant clover now then plough it in as a green manure after flowering then plant osr for next year. I suppose you could also go down the tree route alongside spring bulbs

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[Mellifera Crofter]

Dave, if you want to plant clover then I think it is important to ask the seed merchant for the white wild clover - trifolium repens. I don't know if all white clovers are wild - but choosing a white clover would be the better than the red kind (trifolium pratense).
Kitta

[crabbitdave]

Hi kitta I think your right about speaking to the seed merchant as I've read that not all clovers are suitable for honey bees due to their tongue length, looks like a simple idea is not so straight forward :)


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[Falcon]

As far as i believe clover requires high temperatures to produce and you probably have plenty already about. Mid summer has plenty of forage
If you dont have heather I would go for a late producer if your fields are sealed and not near a burn or river plant a few acres of Hymalayan Balsam(1 plant every 3 mt.first year second year it will be full) (collect plenty of seeds in Sep.) along with a meadow mix

[nemphlar]

Himalayan balsam, now there's an option if you can keep it hidden. The Sunday environmentalist will be having picnics and ripping it up

[crabbitdave]

Falcon we have a good few acres of heather but sadly the local authority have said no the burning for some years now so it no good for anything, the Himalayan balsam sounds like a great idea, they do seam to do ok for forage at the moment but if I can turn a green field into something they can use and it's only a few yards away it can only be a good thing, as for environmentalist there's not many out here that the dogs don't keep away lol


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[gavin]

Falcon, I know that you suggested only a 'sealed' site, but meeting the needs of Himalayan balsam would be difficult unless you have a site that may be seasonally flooded. A meadow mix would be good - if it is a brown earth site Phacelia might be a better suggestion.

As for Sunday environmentalists, many of us - me included - like to think of ourselves as 7 day a week environmentalists.

[greengumbo]

I'd second phacelia. I used it to improve and break up a clay / neglected patch and it worked wonders. In terms of flowering length and nectar dispensing it is one of the best plants for pollinators. We could hear it being worked by the honeybees from a fair distance. Maybe 200 bees per metre patch :)

[Falcon]

I have a fair wee bit of H.B. growing for the past few years and found that it doesn't need any special requirements.
As long as its fairly clean the 2nd and 3rd years it takes over shading out other weeds.
I find the honey bees ignore the H.B till everything else is finished then they go on it big time right into Nov. or till the first frost.
A good late producer.

[Mellifera Crofter]

I'd second phacelia. I used it to improve and break up a clay / neglected patch and it worked wonders. ...
What did you do with it the second year, GB? Did you have to work it into the soil? How big was the patch?
Kitta

[crabbitdave]

The field is on a slope top half tree lined bottom it's gone very marshy due to the drainage ditch being neglected the next field is now flooded by water coming from the railway drainage that's made a very large pond lots of new plants have spurn up, so it's a bit of a mixed bag but it does look great on a nice day :)


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[GRIZZLY]

I'd go for Gavins idea i.e. Phacelia., another excellent bee crop is Borage - the honey is excellent.

[snimmo243]

the next field is now flooded by water coming from the railway drainage that's made a very large pond lots of new plants have spurn up,

Put troot in it!

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[crabbitdave]

Hi grizzly am not want to go down the root of planting crops, I was more looking at a plant's that would maybe only need a little or no looking after, due to me only doing this as a hobby :) and know very little about plants and their names


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[brothermoo]

I threw some borage into the bed in the garden last year and the bees were all over them when they were in flower, hope they come back again this year!
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[greengumbo]

Hi mellifera, it was a five by five

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[greengumbo]

Woops new to this smart phone stuff....anyway only 5x5 metre patches and I cut the stalks after flowering leaving them on surface over winter. Digging in this weekend then planting borage and clover on it. Phacelia on another neglected bit of the garden. If you have slightly alkaline soil then sanfoin is amazing for bees.

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[gavin]

I sowed a similar sized patch at the association apiary and a smaller one on the allotment. Both have self-seeded to some extent, but in Dave's case they will not be self-sustaining as the bare earth converts to something more perennial.

There's a picture of the Phacelia patch here (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/entry.php?646-Grafting-again).

I sowed into lightly raked soil which had been under a carpet. This is the right time of year. For £7 you can get enough seed for 250m2 from greenmanure.co.uk.

[greengumbo]

Plus the pollen is an amazing blue colour :)

[Calum]

Hi
I'd plant willow along the edges, Willow seems quite happy in quite wet ground, will give the bees a good start in the spring.
There are flowering plant mixes you can get here now that provide excellent forage for bees and butterflies, the mown "crop" is then sold on for biogas production. Its not as valuble per acre as the elephant grass that is usually planted, but insect friendly... I'll try to supply a link.
http://www.lebensraum-brache.de/Projekte/Biogas/Projekt/index.php
google translate will help...

[busybeephilip]

I threw some borage into the bed in the garden last year and the bees were all over them when they were in flower, hope they come back again this year!


Hey moo, where did you get the seeds from ?
Phil

[brothermoo]

I think it was hillmount but it wasn't cheap. I think I will get some phacelia from greenmanure at that price for my out apiary!

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[crabbitdave]

We did used to have miles of willow herb and the bees loved it but when they reinstated the railway they dug it all out, it does seam to be making a come back in small patches I like the idea from Calum using the willow and try to different plants through the rest of the field


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[Calum]

I am growing something called dragon willow in the garden (Sekka willow or Salix udensis i think), many many more catkins than regular willow... 1967, not great for basket weaving tho ;)
here you can buy differing mixes for example:
Buckwheat, sunflower, dyers chamomile, Echium, Centaurea, knapweed, birdsfoot trefoil
Phacelia, calendula, borage, dill.
Corn cockle, cornflower, marigold seeds, poppy
(Buchweizen, Sonnenblume, Färberkamille, Natternkopf, Flockenblume, Hornklee
Phacelia, Ringelblume, Borretsch, Dill.
Kornrade, Kornblume, Saat-Wucherblume, Klatschmohn)

[nemphlar]

We have ~4000m2 of industrial area just recently demolished flatish but pretty rough planted 60 each of gean silver birch and rowan with a kilo of mixed meadow seed and according to the bags 750000 phacelia seeds. No idea if any will get a grip, but it'll be some spot if it does

[Calum]

now is a great time to get willow cuttings into the ground, that is perfect for bees in spring, flowers quickly too.
Do the bees get anything from the birch?

[nemphlar]

It wasn't really all about the bees we were trying to find something that might survive poor ground. Willow sounds good. When you say cutting, have these been rooted last year?

[greengumbo]

now is a great time to get willow cuttings into the ground, that is perfect for bees in spring, flowers quickly too.
Do the bees get anything from the birch?

I tried to source some Sekka willow cuttings this week for planting but none of the internet sellers I checked have stocks at the moment. If anyone can take a few Sekka cuttings and stick em in the post I would be grateful :) Typical scrounging northern beekeeper !

[Calum]

Ask at the local park/botanical gardens - maybe they have some or something else - they are usually trimming back the new growth at this time of year! sometimes they are getting rid of "extra" overwintered plants at this time of year too... ;). Its amazing what doors can be opened by a glass of honey, and astounding whats behind them sometimes..
IM me your postal address, I'll see what I can send from Germany

[brothermoo]

I was cycling to work this morning and saw some willow along the edge of the greenway ...was reminded of this thread... they cut it back most years so I must keep an eye out and get some cuttings for my out apiary

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[Rosie]

I would mark the male plants and then take cuttings from them more than the females when you are ready. I have hundreds of willows on my patch of wet land and the females seem to outnumber the males by a large margin. They are swarming all over the males at the moment, obviously after the pollen, but very few are on the females.

[nemphlar]

We ordered 40 sekka wiillow from Yorkshire willow at 45p each this morning,looks like an attractive addition thanks Calum. Good excuse to help the bees

[Calum]

Alder Buckthorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhamnus_frangula) while you are at it! Likes boggy ground, and (at least here in Germany) flowers at a time when not much else is flowering (end of may- beginning july but also through to september). Although according to german wikipedia it is not found in Scotland although it is common in England and Wales...
I'll put the package on hold then. Wasn't sure if the cuttings would survive in the post....

[nemphlar]

It looks an interesting plant, I'll make a note of that one thanks. It's poor industrial ground, but the process on site was clean and it has none of the nasty legacy found on some sites. I'll watch the pioneers progress this year, as I said earlier it may be a waste of time and effort

[nemphlar]

The sekka sticks arrived and are now in the ground, I had been expecting a rooted plant, but it's a bundle of sticks. I've since learned that willows will root anywhere anytime.