Queen in super

[Derek Uchman]

At the end of last year I allowed one of my colonies into a super full of honey as a wee treat. However, now that spring has arrived, how/when do I get the queen back down? I'm worried that if I go in to early, I'll freeze the colony, but if I leave it too late will I end up with a lot of brood in the super? By the way, the colony has survived the winter extremely well, and is doing great.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Brood and a half hives used to bother me until I read (I think it was in BeeCraft) how somebody manages his bees on brood and a half. Basically, like you, he overwinters the queen on both boxes and doesn't bother about moving her down until it is about or almost time to add a honey super. He then moves her down and add a queen excluder allowing the brood in the super to hatch. You'll have to check and remove the queen cells that the bees will build in the super. I will also worry about the drones. The kind of queen excluder I'll use would have an entrance to allow the drones to leave. As the new bees hatch, the empty cells will be filled with honey. I think that once this brood super is filled with honey he removes the queen excluder. This brood super filled with honey will act like a queen excluder (or you can add an excluder above that super). At the end of the season he harvests the honey supers and leaves the colony with the original brood super filled with honey ready for winter. I haven't yet had the opportunity to try it out, but it sounds feasible. I'll see if I can find the article.
Kitta

[busybeephilip]

I suppose that this type of management would fit in very well with the Rose system of beekeeping where only one size of frame is used throughout the whole hive. Plus, the rose system does not use a queen excluder, I'm tempted to try it as the equipment, excluding frames, is interchangeable with national hives. Does anyone living close to me have a spindle moulder ?

[masterbk]

Simply swap positions of the boxes putting the super under the broodchamber. At this time of year queens tend to lay in the upper box (= BC) allowing any brood the brood to emerge in the lower box (=super). However a few queens chimney and lay on a few combs in both boxes.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Masterbk, I know people often suggest swapping the boxes around, but if the queen has laid in both boxes, wouldn't it worry you that you might be splitting the brood (as Ian Craig illustrated in fig 3, page 7 of his year in beekeeping (http://scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/Portals/0/Documents/My%20Beekeeping%20Year.pdf) document)?

If the shallow is still free of brood before moving it down, at what stage would you then remove the shallow from below the brood box? How would you manage that?

Kitta

[masterbk]

If the super is free of brood then no need to put it down below just simply remove it.
If there is brood in both boxes then put queen onto a brood comb in the BC and insert an excluder between the boxes. In 3 weeks brood will all have emerged from the shallows to be eventually replaced by honey.
Actually splitting the brood is not a problem once the colony has built up and the weather has improved (eg in May) and it opens up another alternative approach namely carrying out a Demaree but with the super of brood which would have the added benefits of delaying swarming.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Simply swap positions of the boxes around, ...


... If there is brood in both boxes then put queen onto a brood comb in the BC and insert an excluder between the boxes. ...

Does that mean you'll put a queen excluder below the queen?
Kitta

[masterbk]

At this time of year there is no problem with putting a queen excluder below the box containing the queen as there are no/few drones around yet (and if there are you can always provide a temporary middle entrance for them a la Bailey above the excluder) However in my second post I am suggesting finding and transferring the queen (assuming the beekeeper can catch /pick up the queen or use a cage etc to do it )from the super (if that is where you find her) onto a comb of brood in the broodchamber then the excluder above that and with super (of brood ) on top of that. For those unable to find queens then creat a space in the BC and shake all the combs of bees from the super into the BC and place the super back above the BC with excluder seperating them.

[Derek Uchman]

Thanks, everyone. Really interesting advice. Think I'll do as masterbk suggests. Queen is marked and I have no probs finding her. I'm quite fond of her as she's mother of all three of my colonies. Thanks again, everyone, for taking the time to help me. It's appreciated

[Mellifera Crofter]

Derek,

If interested, I've found the article about brood-and-a-half management I referred to. It was written by Adrian Waring, NDB, and appeared in the July 2013 issue of BeeCraft. I'll send you a copy of the article.
Kitta

[fatshark]

Just checked three of mine overwintered on brood and a half - with the super underneath. All had used most/all of the stores in the super, were looking strong for the time of year and should be ready for further expansion in the next couple of weeks. Rather than shaking off all the bees I put the brood box back on the floor, added a clearer board, then the super.

One of the colonies was very strong and the queen had started laying in the super … just my luck that she chose the three middle frames that happened to be drawn drone foundation :rolleyes: Of the 9 or 10 colonies checked so far this year I'd say the ones on brood and a half have done at least as well, if not better, than the rest.

I moved her to the bottom box and will recover the vacated supers on Tuesday/Wednesday.