Nosema survey: Killing bees by freezing

[Kate Atchley]

How long does it take to kill bees put into the freezer ... eg for the Nosema survey? Poor creatures! :(

[The Drone Ranger]

if you drop them in methylated spirits death is instant, for wing sampling that's ok don't know if it's good enough for a lab checking nosema

[gavin]

I presume that you are asking about the 5cm x 5cm x 3cm plastic box with holes and 30 bees as suggested in the notes circulated today? I don't know! Two nights might be safer than one. These days when I've taken a sample (for killing by freezing) they go into a thin plastic sandwich bag which holds very little air and chills quickly in the freezer.

If you are in a local association and you haven't yet heard about this think yourself lucky. There have been various emails going round but today's seems to be the final, settled protocol. If you have seen the earlier emails, the instructions now are to collect old bees, and to sample any hive not just apparently failing ones. The replicated sampling still applies. One lot of 30ish bees live, straight to SASA still alive, collected and posted early in the working week, and one lot frozen until deed, then analysed locally (microscopes may be available) for Nosema spores. The extracts with visible spores from the frozen sample are also sent to SASA.

The plan is to train up to 6 SBA volunteers at SASA to help out with spore measuring and molecular tests to distinguish Nosema apis and Nosema ceranae. If you want to volunteer for that, contact 'alan riach' by PM on here.

The project is an SBA-SASA-University of Dundee project aimed at 'Knowledge Transfer'. The scientific aims for this particular piece of work are relatively modest and the focus is more on training people and building a network. The type of funding (from the BBSRC) is to transfer 'capacity' so the University of Dundee will bow out after 6 months or so, leaving the SBA in charge.

If you haven't yet heard about it and your LA secretary knows your email address, you should hear soon. In the East of Scotland I propose to offer a bee typing service as we process the frozen bees. Assuming that people want to take part of course.

Questions? If so, they're not really for me. Aint my baby.

[Kate Atchley]

If you are in a local association and you haven't yet heard about this think yourself lucky. There have been various emails going round ......

Yes, emails galore. Fortunately I was too busy to forward to our members, straight away, Phil's invitation to send in bee samples. I did this today, by which time I was able (I hope) to select the final and most relevant parts of the emails and attachments. What a communications shambles!

It seems researchers and SBA are ever keen to find out the disease status of our bees (many of us took part in the acarine survey). But what of advice to beekeepers whose bees are found to carry any of these lurgies? I'd like to see more research funds going into solutions/treatments, not only identification of disease.

Thanks ... 2 nights sounds about right. But now I'll wait to post them on Monday with the live bees.

[gavin]

I'm in perfect agreement with you there Kate, but hey! I'm trying to be constructive.

The intention is to keep the dead, frozen bees locally until a microscopic Nosema determination can be made. Just send the living ones as SASA want to mummify them in a special way, I think to conserve viruses better than takes place in freeze-thaw samples. If it is beyond your resources locally (a portable microscope might be on offer), maybe teaming up with some other association might be possible. Oban?

[Kate Atchley]

The intention is to keep the dead, frozen bees locally until a microscopic Nosema determination can be made ... maybe teaming up with some other association might be possible. Oban?

Finally, I will learn to use my microscopes, given to me for Christmas last year! Yes, I expect Phil will be willing to teach me the basics.

[Neils]

Kate, if it's any consolation I'm in the same boat. If I had enough time to do all the things I want to do, let alone just with bees, I'd be the luckiest man alive (or a Tory).

[drumgerry]

Can I just say that I think the aim of transferring microscopy skills is a laudable one but my opinion (surprise surprise) is that this study is a bit of a red herring. Not sure what the SBA hopes to achieve by studying something which is pretty much everywhere. Could it be yet another example of the "Bee Research Gravy Train"?? Perhaps throwing resources at something which might be of practical help to us might be better. Yes I know microscopy is a practical skill but like Kate says what use knowing it's there without training in how to deal with it if found.

Edit: And yes I'm back after a "had it with beekeeping up to here" hiatus!

[The Drone Ranger]

Nosema seems to have been a real worry for beekeepers in the 50's and 60's
Fumagillin may have been why less was heard about it for a while
After the arrival of varroa it seems to dropped off the radar till nosema cerana became big news
Then fumagillin was banned here for some reason but not in the USA
I don't know of any treatment for the disease now except acetic acid for sterilising the combs

You will need your microscope for staring up the back end of all those queens next year drumgerry :)

[Ruary]

You will need your microscope for staring up the back end of all those queens next year drumgerry :)

Different type of microscope, stereo for looking at back end of Queens, Compound for nosema.