Management of Nuclei

[prakel]

Wedmore wrote that most bee management problems can be resolved by either taking something from or adding something to a nucleus.

I've always had nucleus colonies and never really understood why some people seem to shy away from running nucs -I've heard them referred to as being for more advanced beekeepers; nonsense in my opinion.

So, here's a thread where I hope people will offer thoughts and tips on running and using nuclei whether it's for mating, over wintering queens or simply to have a 'brood factory' from which to draw combs to strengthen cell builders or to boost other colonies in times of need.

I'm thinking more along the lines of full frame nucs in all of their varied forms rather than minis which already have their own threads but crossover is of course welcome.

[prakel]

To get things moving, a Larry Connor webinair on overwintering nuclei


http://youtu.be/5aisF4oV8D0

[Iveseenthings]

I have 3 nucs going into winter this year. I always use poly nucs as I know they over winter well. One of my colonies swarmed so I used the best queen cells to populate 2 nucs, but one grew so well that I split it to make a 3rd nuc (added bought queen to that one). They had to survive quite serious wasp attacks and the weakest nuc had to be moved from my out apiary to my garden to give it a chance to recover. I'm feeding them syrup now (frame feeder). Managed to beat the wasps by killing their nests (well, 3 nearby nests anyway).

Assuming they get through winter I'll have 3 young queens ready to roll in the spring, way before anyone is selling them.

I think the hardest thing about managing nucs is that they need closer attention. They are more vulnerable to robbing/wasp attack. They can grow quickly and run out of space leading to swarming. I definitely think it's worth overwintering some though, either as an insurance policy or to make increase or to sell.

[prakel]

Assuming they get through winter I'll have 3 young queens ready to roll in the spring, way before anyone is selling them.

and they won't even have jetlag :)


I think the hardest thing about managing nucs is that they need closer attention. They are more vulnerable to robbing/wasp attack. They can grow quickly and run out of space leading to swarming

I'm hoping we'll see some good posts on nuc management in this thread.

[GRIZZLY]

I've got one quite weak colony in a full size hive , I am going to transfer it into a paynes plastic neuc because I feel it will keep warmer , I can put a lec over the top and use this as a feed chamber using candy. I don't wish to unite it with another colony.

[madasafish]

I have 4xTBH nucs.All insulated. Overwintered with no issues : management as per full size hive. Critical is for them to be full of stores. Other than that, a light 1:1 feed end Feb for spring build up.

[prakel]

I have 4xTBH nucs.All insulated. Overwintered with no issues : management as per full size hive. Critical is for them to be full of stores. Other than that, a light 1:1 feed end Feb for spring build up.

Hi, how many combs do you use in these, and, could you give a topbar length/comb depth? I was going to start up some topbar hives this year but other stuff got the better of me in the end and there just wasn't time to finish building the boxes/get the stocked. Another 'next year' project.

[Jon]

The Paynes nucs have become popular but one criticism has been the thin roof - the part where you would want the maximum amount of insulation.

It is easy enough to adapt the eke to make a thicker roof and add 75mm more insulation.
It takes about 5 minutes.
You need a piece 50mm thick and another 25mm thick.

1815 1814 1813 1812

I also think it is better to have the inner cover over the 6 frames rather than the six frames and the feeder.
It leaves the feeder easier to fill when the roof is taken off with no disturbance at all to the bees.

[madasafish]

Hi, how many combs do you use in these, and, could you give a topbar length/comb depth? I was going to start up some topbar hives this year but other stuff got the better of me in the end and there just wasn't time to finish building the boxes/get the stocked. Another 'next year' project.

My nucs are c 18inches in width with a 38cm (1.5inch ) thick topbar so 12 combs.Topbar width 17 inches, depth 11 inches (sorry for the non metric).If they don't fill all 12 combs, I use Celotex follower boards to reduce the internal space..(all my nucs are insulated - top and sides.)

[Mellifera Crofter]

... (all my nucs are insulated - top and sides.)

How did you insulate the sides, M?

Kitta

[prakel]

My nucs are c 18inches in width with a 38cm (1.5inch ) thick topbar so 12 combs.Topbar width 17 inches, depth 11 inches (sorry for the non metric).If they don't fill all 12 combs, I use Celotex follower boards to reduce the internal space..(all my nucs are insulated - top and sides.)

If I'm visualizing correctly, that seems like quite a substantial comb area, how many combs do you start them with initially?

Do you use the nucs for successive queen mating through the season or are they set up on a once only basis and then grown into full colonies?

[madasafish]

If I'm visualizing correctly, that seems like quite a substantial comb area, how many combs do you start them with initially?

Do you use the nucs for successive queen mating through the season or are they set up on a once only basis and then grown into full colonies?

3 combs to start with.
Once only and then grow..

[prakel]

I have 4xTBH nucs.

Which sent me off in search of some topbar nuc information.



http://youtu.be/FYHryyzbs3g

[Michael Palmer]

I have about 700 nucleus colonies going into winter. Those on standard Langstroth frames, about 450, are in two story, double boxes, 4 combs over 4 combs...so two 8 comb nucs on a stand. I set them up between June 15 and July 15, starting with 2 frames of brood, one feed, and one empty. I raise my own queens and give each nuc a mated queen the same day as the nuc is made up. They quickly build up from four combs to eight, drawing foundation on the sweet clover/linden flow. All draw 4 combs but most draw 6 or 7. Extra combs of honey are removed and replaced by additional foundation until the flow slows. Just before our goldenrod flow begins, any remaining undrawn is replaced by drawn comb so the bees have somewhere to put the last flow of the year. I winter with a 10-15% loss.

I also winter about 250 mating nucs. These were 540 four frame minis in 4-ways during the mating season from June 1 to July 31. After the last queen catch, the nucs are expanded onto 8 combs each by catching half the queens, and a 10 frame mini-comb super is added. At the end of May, the stocks are broken down into four frame 4 ways again and given ripe queen cells.

[fatshark]

Hi Michael
Vermont is a lot colder than the United Kingdom ... is there a marked difference in overwintering success for single or double nucs?

[Michael Palmer]

Not really, if you can keep the singles in their box. With a small number of nuclei to manage, the job isn't difficult. As the nuc gets too strong, combs of brood can be removed and additional nucs made up. Because I make so many, I wind up attempting to manage the nucs I've made up already, while still setting up new nucs and still raising queens. Eventually the bees get ahead of me.

And there's another reason I switched to two story. Absconding. We often get hot humid weather in August. The temperatures get up into the 90s and the humidity reaches similar numbers. The bees, getting crowded, can't cool their cavity. The bees abscond...leaving no queen cells to raise a new queen. When inspected, the nuc has emerging brood, a small cluster of newly emerged bees...not enough to cover the brood...and emergency cells. Occasionally, there may be a queen cup with an egg or a day old larva, but never a cell old enough to consider the colony had swarmed. Also, absconds seem to fly straight away, not clustering in a nearby tree while the bees decide on their new location.

I will say that two story nucs have a larger cluster going in and coming out of winter...singles will have 2-3.5 frames of brood, while the doubles will have 4-7.

[fatshark]

Thanks Michael ... looking forward to hearing more of this at the National Honey Show.

[gavin]

Isn't it brill to have such august beekeepers contributing to the forum?! Thanks. Michael (and thanks, fatshark ;) ).

[drumgerry]

Indeed it is Gavin! And Michael if you happen to read this can I say that the video of your talk pretty much changed how I go about my beekeeping so many thanks from me.

[GRIZZLY]

Is the Michael Palmer video available for download ?

[prakel]

Is the Michael Palmer video available for download ?

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?917-Mike-palmer-The-sustainable-apiary&highlight=sustainable :)

[Poly Hive]

The now long deceased sec of the Aberdeen society ran many nucs and on doubles too. His rationale was that he could take them to the heather and as they filled the top combs they wore themselves out on the heather and filled the bottom box neatly with stores for wintering. He said it was a double plus as the exercise fed them and kept the numbers under control too.

Please remember that our maritime climate is all about damp, continental climates are very different.

PH