Book thread/forum section

[snimmo243]

Hello
Forgive me if I have overlooked this elsewhere on the forum, but I was thinking it may be a good idea to have either a sticky thread or seperate forum section where members can recommend/review/ask for recommendations on beekeeping books.

Steven

[prakel]

An excellent suggestion if I may say so. We so often see threads appear asking which book for beginner/queen rearing/present and the like. A dedicated section would be an excellent resource for people to tap into. I especially like the idea of people reviewing books.

[Neils]

We have a favourite links, it could be combined I feel.

[gavin]

Wondered about that but it really is a different kind of thing.

I'm wary of splitting the forum into more sections - in my view the more you do this the more people revert to a big general one for their posts. And yes, book reviews would be great, but would we have enough to warrant a book section on its own?

Go on - prove me wrong all you literate beekeepers out there. Start posting about books on this thread - and I'll temporarily 'stick' it while we see what happens. We will look at it again in a couple of weeks and unstick it or I'll even eat humble pie and split off the book stuff into different threads in a new section, one for each book, if need be ....

Wedmore: what a mine of useful information even if seriously outdated, no?!

[GRIZZLY]

Wedmore: what a mine of useful information even if seriously outdated, no?![/QUOTE]

His book has numbered paragraphs - making it very easy to find things. A lot of the info is still relevant Gavin.

A good book for beginners is Ron Browns' " BEEKEEPING - a seasonal guide " simple straightforward stuff - very well explained.

Gavin we need to categorize books under particular headings e.g. "basic beginners" , " queen rearing" etc,etc. this way forum members can search for a recommended book to suit their particular needs.

[The Drone Ranger]

Good thinking Grizzly --sections like a library
Ron Brown a good choice for "getting started"

[prakel]

...Wedmore: what a mine of useful information even if seriously outdated, no?!

Wedmore's Manual of Beekeeping was the first beekeeping book that I ever bought for myself as a youngster:). I still have that copy, the reprint by John Kinross but later also purchased a first edition to get the stuff which had been dropped from the second ed.

Flicking through it just now I came across a paragraph on twin/multi mating nucs where he mentions that interchange of combs can be achieved easily if all of the small colonies are allowed to develop the same 'hive scent'. He suggests drilling small holes through the division boards at top and bottom to facilitate this. Non standard advice that could fit in to the current discussion regarding twin nucs, if only it wouldn't derail the 'poly hive musings' thread too much. There are still lots of gems in this book which could be of interest to the modern day keeper who likes to think rather than just follow.

Numbering of the paragraphs is a great tool that works well. Maybe not the best book to learn modern beekeeping from but I think that anyone with an enquiring mind and a knowledge of current practice should be able to turn to it for assistance with many small problems with the confidence of knowing that at the very least it's as good as a lot of the forum advice that's so easily available. A little like labourer's-food, basic but solid.

[nemphlar]

Wedmore was my bible for years,but post varroa and OMF I wonder if there is such a book available now to keep a beginner on the right road

[The Drone Ranger]

Wedmore was my bible for years,but post varroa and OMF I wonder if there is such a book available now to keep a beginner on the right road


maybe Beebase for the Varroa and diseases stuff because it keeps fairly up to date

[snimmo243]

I Suppose as I started this I better contribute something!
On another thread I asked for advice on a good book about queen rearing, a few of you suggested "Queen Rearing Essentials" by Lawrence John Connor, in the process of searching for the book online I came across another book by the same author called Increase Essentials, as I was starting again from scratch this year I decided to buy this book first as I felt it was more relevant to my current beekeeping circumstances.
Having finished reading it I found it very informative and an easy read. The book has opened my eyes to looking at increasing colony numbers as an end in itself rather than exclusively as part of swarm prevention. The book explains the biology behind increases and goes into detail about various methods, preparations and prerequisuits for creating increase colonies. Some parts of the book discuss specifics of beekeeping in America but the overall principles can certainly be applied anywhere. This book, for me, should definitely be used as a reference book, I see myself going back to this book again and again and will definitely make the Queen Rearing book one of my next purchases.

Steven

[Iveseenthings]

I really like the "essentials" books by Larry Connor too, and must also confess to having a soft spot for another American author, Kim Flottum. His recent Better Beekeeping is good because it is up to date and not aimed at the very beginner. Talks quite a lot about the economics of growing from hobbyist to something bigger.

I have become quite good at American terminology and taking what is relevant to the UK and ignoring some other stuff. Most of it is relevant I think.

I also like the American Bee Journal (on kindle) - don't know why but I prefer it to the uk ones.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[prakel]

I really like the "essentials" books by Larry Connor too, and must also confess to having a soft spot for another American author, Kim Flottum. His recent Better Beekeeping is good because it is up to date and not aimed at the very beginner. Talks quite a lot about the economics of growing from hobbyist to something bigger.

I have become quite good at American terminology and taking what is relevant to the UK and ignoring some other stuff. Most of it is relevant I think.

I also like the American Bee Journal (on kindle) - don't know why but I prefer it to the uk ones.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Agree with so much of this post..... do you get Kim Flottum's internet newsletter 'Catch the Buzz'?

http://home.ezezine.com/1636/1636-2013.08.01.10.25.archive.html

An excellent source of bite-sized information to follow up at our leisure.

I could start an entire thread just on internet 'bee' newsletters written/edited by well informed writers and researchers.

[prakel]

I Suppose as I started this I better contribute something!
On another thread I asked for advice on a good book about queen rearing, a few of you suggested "Queen Rearing Essentials" by Lawrence John Connor, in the process of searching for the book online I came across another book by the same author called Increase Essentials, as I was starting again from scratch this year I decided to buy this book first as I felt it was more relevant to my current beekeeping circumstances.
Having finished reading it I found it very informative and an easy read. The book has opened my eyes to looking at increasing colony numbers as an end in itself rather than exclusively as part of swarm prevention. The book explains the biology behind increases and goes into detail about various methods, preparations and prerequisuits for creating increase colonies. Some parts of the book discuss specifics of beekeeping in America but the overall principles can certainly be applied anywhere. This book, for me, should definitely be used as a reference book, I see myself going back to this book again and again and will definitely make the Queen Rearing book one of my next purchases.

Steven

Larry Connor's thinking with regards to overwintering nucs is of course very heavily influenced by the work of Michael Palmer who's speaking at the National Honey Show this year.

[greengumbo]

I am always quick to bang the drum about Honeybee Democracy by Tom Seeley.

Good winter read and for those who like to catch swarms :)

[Neils]

Greengumbo I agree with you entirely. Not necessarily a book for beekeepers per se, but you'll expand your knowledge about bees immeasurably as a result of reading it.

[drumgerry]

Two books which I recommend to beginners and to those with a bit of experience.

Sixty Years with Bees - Donald Sims
Honey Farming - ROB Manley

Can't tell you how much good I've had from those books over the years.

Current reading squeeze -

Background to Bee Breeding - John Atkinson. Hilarious in places and superb info for those interested in the subject.

Celia Davis - both her books are great reading and good swotting material for exams if you're that way inclined.

[prakel]

Whole heartedly agree with Sims'. There's a true wealth of information in that book. I'd take it any day over Hooper and a multitude of other DIY manuals. I'll say the same for Manley -while making the point that it's possibly not too good for an absolute beginner because it is, in many parts, very dated; there's stuff in there that just isn't correct according to research and/or modern thinking but it's easy for someone with a good grounding today to read around those parts without any problem. My own 'Manley preference' is actually Beekeeping in Britain. Another great book from the master. A side note here, John Rawson in his World of a Beefarmer reprinted a letter he received from Manley in the early 60's where there's a good outline of the recent honey harvests they were achieving. All I can say is that they must have previously built a good financial base to have survived those years without selling the family silver.

Atkinson's Background to Beebreeding is indeed a true classic, I find some of his writing style quite hard going in places but he gives just so much information. It's a book which most people won't buy because of the price tag, their loss. I made a comment which was aimed directly at another beekeeper some time ago about her reluctance to pay £7 or £8 postage on a book from the US. She actually thought that 'typical beekeeper' was a honour, whereas in the specific context of the conversation it was anything but..... My take on this is that too many people refuse to invest in quality books.

[drumgerry]

I take your point about Manley Prakel. I think it's his approach more than the details of his methods I find inspiring. He seems to have been a modern beekeeper in attitude in times even more conservative than our own.

And totally agree about investment in quality books. One of the things I find most frustrating about some of the new generation of beekeepers (maybe the old one as well, I don't know) is the expectation they don't have to do the work (the reading and research) themselves.

[prakel]

I take your point about Manley Prakel. I think it's his approach more than the details of his methods I find inspiring. He seems to have been a modern beekeeper in attitude in times even more conservative than our own.

With you on Manley, he'll always be one of my favourite bee authors because of his robust approach. By the way, there's a pdf copy of Honey Farming available free on the net, not the same as having the book but it may give those who've yet to try his writing a good taste of what to expect (never worked out how to link pdfs so I won't bother trying, it's easily searchable).

[snimmo243]

Having done my basic beemaster this year I've applied for the March sitting of module 1 next year, so today I ordered the Yates Study notes for modules 1, 2 & 3. I found the Yates book for the basic exam to be invaluable in preparing for it, the only downside I found was that it may have been a little dogmatic and preachy in places e.g if you can't handle bees without gloves either you are doing something wrong or the bees should be requeened!

Steven

[Poly Hive]

I cannot agree more about the modern attitude of look it up on the net and if it is not on the net it is worthless. Came across that attitude more than once on a forum or two. Personally I am a reader. I read about bees for a year before buying my first nuc so at the least I had the table of threes in my head which is something many beekeepers these days do not do and so cannot read the colony.

All three Manley books.

Wedmore is something I still consult and yes the numbering is excellent.

Logan and Mace are authors to consider too.

I am VERY wary of American books as the conditions and bees are so very different to ours. Can be very confusing to beginners who cannot read between the lines.

I asked Bernard why he had never written a book and he said there were already too many. Possibly a dig at one which is never mentioned in book lists oddly. LOL

PH

[drumgerry]

I agree about Wedmore. My copy lives mostly in the toilet for a quick read during the unmentionable!

[Mellifera Crofter]

... at the least I had the table of threes in my head which is something many beekeepers these days do not do ...

I'm entering my fifth year of beekeeping, PH, and I don't know what the table of threes is ... Can you please tell me?
Kitta

[snimmo243]

I cannot agree more about the modern attitude of look it up on the net and if it is not on the net it is worthless. Came across that attitude more than once on a forum or two. Personally I am a reader. I read about bees for a year before buying my first nuc so at the least I had the table of threes in my head which is something many beekeepers these days do not do and so cannot read the colony.

All three Manley books.

Wedmore is something I still consult and yes the numbering is excellent.

Logan and Mace are authors to consider too.

I am VERY wary of American books as the conditions and bees are so very different to ours. Can be very confusing to beginners who cannot read between the lines.

I asked Bernard why he had never written a book and he said there were already too many. Possibly a dig at one which is never mentioned in book lists oddly. LOL

PH

I agree with what you are saying about starting out although I have to admit my first piece of research was watching the dreamworks film Bee Movie :rolleyes: then I went to the Library and got Ted Hooper's book and Clive de Bruyn's, followed by contacting my local association and enrolling in the beginners classes. for me it was the right way to do it (there was a bit of a spat on another thread about this). As I'm currently studying for the first of the modular exams I think I'm going to go and buy Ted Hooper's book as it seems to be on the reading lists for most of the exams.

Oh and I recently got my Yates Module 1,2,3 book - intimidating!!!

Steven

[Mellifera Crofter]

But Steven, do you know your 'table of threes'?
Kitta

[snimmo243]

Maths isn't my strong point particularly the Times tables, perhaps poly hive could enlighten us?

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[Poly Hive]

Worker: 3 days an egg, 5 days moulting, 13 days sealed. 21 days total

Drone: 3 days an egg, 8 days moulting, 13 days sealed. 24 days total

Queen: 3 days an egg, 5- days moulting, 8 days sealed. 16 days total.

Average figures subject to temperatures. Taken from memory and the Beekeeping Encyclopedia.

Without this info reading a colony is unlikely.

Some may remember the americanised bee fiasco in the border states when Africanised queens were found to emerge at 15.5 days. Several millions down the proverbial.
PH

[drumgerry]

That queen 16 days thing will get you into trouble if you believe it verbatim. Subject to temperatures indeed! And am I stupid or does pupation not take place after sealing? If I am stupid hopefully I can rely on you lot to be nice about telling me so!

[Poly Hive]

Go on then what part of 16 days is the issue? and yes pupation is after sealing sorry wrong word. Re temperatures... argue with Morse and Hooper

PH

[drumgerry]

Ok - maybe you need to take less of a tone PH.

All I meant is that you can't just assume that your queen cells are going to hatch exactly 8 days after they're sealed. As you suggest they can hatch sooner (ie the day or night before). They can also hatch later and I've frequently released healthy virgins from cells on day 17 or 18. And I was agreeing with you about your temperatures comment! Jeez!

[Poly Hive]

The problem with typing Drum is tone is in your head not mine.

PH

[drumgerry]

Aye whatever you say PH. I'm just imagining it eh?

[Poly Hive]

Seemingly.

I find it so sad that a post which is/was meant to be helpful becomes a point of contention when no annoyance is intended.

PH

[drumgerry]

Well I'm not going to get into an argument PH. Things go along pretty much in a friendly manner on this forum and far be it from me to change that

[drumgerry]

Right I see you've edited that post above PH and I feel I have to reply now. Sorry to see you're so sad. I think it was the "go on then" and the "argue with Morse and Hooper". You don't think there's an aggressive or confrontational tone there? Maybe you don't realise it. If you're trying to be helpful maybe there are more diplomatic ways to phrase things.

[Poly Hive]

Nor I sir.

PH

[The Drone Ranger]

On the number of days to hatch thing David Cramp, who is generally very good, wrote "A Practical Manual of Beekeeping" and in there he points up the variation by a day or so round the standard number of days.
I can't remember if it was only drones he was talking about but it caught my attention because if you had drones that hatched a day earlier that would have a big effect on Varroa populations and it might be an easier trait to fix in a strain of bees than hygenic behaviour which seems to be dependent on several genes and possibly is a recessive feature that can only be maintained by using artificial Insemination or line breeding

[Jon]

DR.
Hygienic behaviour as you say is a polygenic trait but the genes are considered to be additive rather than dominant or recessive, ie if you have more of them there will be more hygienic behaviour displayed, less of them and you get less hygienic behaviour.

Link here (http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/genetic_aspects_queen_production_3.html)on the Glenn Apiaries site.


Dr. Harbo believes that the VSH trait is controlled by an unknown number of additive genes. Additive genes are polygenic that lack dominance. Simply put, the more of these genes are present, the more the trait is expressed.

My observations about queen emergence are similar to Gerry's. I have had the odd queen emerge a full day early but odder than that is queens which emerge up to 3 days late and they appear to be ok.

[drumgerry]

...which allows me to indulge in one of my favourite parts of beekeeping. Peeling the capping off and letting a virgin queen hatch on to my hand!

[The Drone Ranger]

DR.
Hygienic behaviour as you say is a polygenic trait but the genes are considered to be additive rather than dominant or recessive, ie if you have more of them there will be more hygienic behaviour displayed, less of them and you get less hygienic behaviour.
I'll look for the link on this.

My observations about queen emergence are similar to Gerry's. I have had the odd queen emerge a full day early but odder than that is queens which emerge up to 3 days late and they appear to be ok.

Hi Jon,
I think they are additive gosh you have some big words in there :)
What seem to be the case is that they are all difficult to fix in a bee population unless you are buying in hygienic queens every other year
Unlike say decent behaviour

[Jon]

I think it is definitely more complicated to fix hygienic behaviour but it is a worthwhile long term goal.
They have had some success in the US. Harbo and Harris and Marla Spivak would be some of the names to google.
There are breeders in the US selling hygienic stock.
The native Irish Honeybee Society has started a project to look for bees which deal better with mites and hygienic behaviour is going to be a big part of that. A funding application has been submitted from Galway University to develop this work but no word back yet about whether it has been a successful application. Fingers crossed.
In an ideal world we would like to be selecting for more resistant stock from within the existing population. Apparently this hygienic trait is present in all be races to a greater or lesser extent.
But anyway, back to the choice of books as the thread is going off at a tangent! (again)

[gavin]

Hi Jon,
I think they are additive gosh you have some big words in there :)
What seem to be the case is that they are all difficult to fix in a bee population unless you are buying in hygienic queens every other year
Unlike say decent behaviour

Wouldn't surprise me if there was epistasis operating too! (pause for Chewing the Fat chin finger wiggling video clip ... oooOOOooo!)

Temper and hygienic behaviour are probably similar traits genetically. Both are part environmental, part genetic, in that they need the right conditions to trigger the effect. Once you have that, select and you make good progress. Both are unlikely to be due to the effect of a single gene and are probably controlled by a limited number of genes.

[Mellifera Crofter]

Worker: 3 days an egg, ...
PH

Phew! Thanks PH - at least I now know that I knew my 'table of threes' all along and I'm sure Steven as well.
Kitta

[The Drone Ranger]

Well chaps even I can produce well behaved bees but if someone on here has bred hygienic ones then hats off to them
I think Swarming by Snelgrove is a good choice it has all the practical control methods and is concise

[gavin]

Phew! Thanks PH - at least I now know that I knew my 'table of threes' all along and I'm sure Steven as well.
Kitta

At the risk of igniting WW3, I was expecting the 'threes' to be worker timings:

3 days egg
6 days open
12 days capped (all with some variation of course)

so a steady state colony (a rarity in my apiary) should show a 1:2:4 ratio of the three types. Variations from it allow you to read the recent history of the colony.

That's what we teach our beginners. Are we wrong?


Worker: 3 days an egg, 5 days moulting, 13 days sealed. 21 days total


As it takes a day to do the final moult after the cell is sealed then that should be 6+1=7 days moulting? However what we see easily and therefore what really matters is the 3+6+12.

G.

[Jon]

3 days egg
6 days open
12 days capped (all with some variation of course)

That is the version I am familiar with as well

[Mellifera Crofter]

Thanks Gavin and Jon. That's a better explanation for the term 'Table of threes'. It's like looking at the same scene through different windows, but the one gives a clearer view. You also mentioned the ratio in an answer to a question about an exam question, '- In a brood nest at its peak size, what are the proportion of eggs to larvae to sealed brood?':


... Well, the times in the various stages are: 3:6:12 days, so 1:2:4 in a colony at full pelt. ...

Kitta

[gavin]

Thanks Gavin and Jon. That's a better explanation for the term 'Table of threes'. It's like looking at the same scene through different windows, but the one gives a clearer view. You also mentioned the ratio in an answer to a question about an exam question, '- In a brood nest at its peak size, what are the proportion of eggs to larvae to sealed brood?':

Kitta

Glad that I've been consistent! Not sure if there really is a term 'table of threes' but PH's reply wasn't just not clear, it was wrong. It is important to get them right if you are going to make management decisions based on timing.


Worker: 3 days an egg, 5 days moulting, 13 days sealed. 21 days total

Drone: 3 days an egg, 8 days moulting, 13 days sealed. 24 days total

Queen: 3 days an egg, 5- days moulting, 8 days sealed. 16 days total.

Average figures subject to temperatures. Taken from memory and the Beekeeping Encyclopedia.

Without this info reading a colony is unlikely.

Some may remember the americanised bee fiasco in the border states when Africanised queens were found to emerge at 15.5 days. Several millions down the proverbial.
PH

The queen times are the standard ones for egg-open brood-sealed brood. The worker times are not right for the same stages and are even more wrong for egg-larva-pupa.

The business about queens emerging in 15.5 days applies to European honeybees as well.

[drumgerry]

So I'm wrong then that worker brood gets sealed on day 8 Gavin?! Which would give a 5 day larval stage? I confess I can't say where I got it from - probably Hooper? And I've never questioned it...till now! Holding myself up for ridicule here but you don't ask etc..

Or has the confusion just arisen from PH's use of the term "moulting"?

[drumgerry]

Whoops I think I've got it now. The 5 day thing just relates to the sealed/unsealed state and not to the stage of development of the larva. Doh! Homer Simpson moment there - sorry!

[Mellifera Crofter]

... PH's reply wasn't just not clear, it was wrong ...

Thanks Gavin. I knew that - honest. I just didn't notice!
K

[Poly Hive]

The figures I gave were from the Encyclopedia of Beekeeping. Are you saying Gavin that worker eggs no longer take three days to hatch?

PH

[snimmo243]

I've kind of lost track of this discussion a bit so I'm going to change the subject and ask for any suggestions for module 1 reading bearing in mind I have the Yates book and intend to get Ted Hooper's book? Any more thoughts on the selective book that drone ranger mentioned

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[Neils]

I think it's quite hard to find books that deal specifically with the subject matter of Module 1 as it deals with more general hive, apiary and honeybee management compared to the other modules that look in more detail at specifics. Without wishing to trivialise it, Module 1 is a relatively gentle introduction to the Exams and, as such, most of the (UK based) books that cover practical beekeeping will be of benefit.

I like David Cramp's "A Practical guide to beekeeping" and The "Complete guide to beekeeping" by Jeremy Evans is also a reasonable book though very much geared towards beginners.

You can also do a lot worse than spend some time looking through the online catalogues for the major bee equipment suppliers, especially around the different hives on offer and where they differ from each other. An oft cited criticism around Module 1 is that it can sometimes seem fixated with having candidates know dimensions for the different hive types and frames, The Beekeeping Forum does have some sticky posts that cover this very topic as a result.

[Mellifera Crofter]

... any suggestions for module 1 reading bearing in mind I have the Yates book and intend to get Ted Hooper's book? ...

Neil's post reminded me again about your question. Neil is right about just reading widely. The first book I read before I got my bees was Bees at the Bottom of the Garden by Alan Campion, and then I moved on to Ted Hooper. Somebody borrowed my Campion book and never returned it, so I don't know how I'd feel about it now - but at the time I liked it a lot. You may be way beyond it, though it might still help in preparing for Module 1. The BBKA Guide to Beekeeping might be useful, and in this month's SBA magazine Stephen Palmer recommends Bee Keeping - a novices' guide by David Wootton. He said it has been updated, so if you are interested in it, then buy, or borrow from the library, the 2011 edition. (I haven't seen it yet so can't say.)
Kitta

[drumgerry]

I found Ron Brown's Seasonal Guide quite handy for Mod 1. And I assume you've discovered the Bucks Notes?!!

[snimmo243]

Hi thanks for all the suggestions, if I bought all those booked I'd maybe be cheaper bribing the examiner :) what are the bucks notes drumgerry?
Steven


Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Kitta
Alan Campion's Bees at the bottom of the garden is a good first book mine took the same route as yours and went on permanent loan :)
It is a very good starter book though
Jeremy Evans as mentioned by Neil is another very good first beekeeping book
Don't know if they would help with any bee exam I doubt it :)

[Mellifera Crofter]

... what are the bucks notes drumgerry? ...

Somebody very friendly has created module guides and published them on the Mid Bucks Blog (http://blog.mbbka.org.uk/). See the links, bottom right.
K

[Neils]

Hi Kitta
Alan Campion's Bees at the bottom of the garden is a good first book mine took the same route as yours and went on permanent loan :)
It is a very good starter book though
Jeremy Evans as mentioned by Neil is another very good first beekeeping book
Don't know if they would help with any bee exam I doubt it :)

In the case of Module 1 they will. It is very much a, pardon the pun, foundation exam.

Do you understand the differences in hive types? Why might you chose hive A over hive B?

Why do we use foundation and why would you use wired or unwired, perhaps none at all.

What are the considerations when choosing an apiary site?

Basic life cycle knowledge of the honey bee.

Swarm management.

What is robbing, how would you recognise and deal with it?

These are all the sort of topics that module 1 covers and that most beekeeping books (aimed at beginners) have at least some information about.

Hence it's difficult to recommend one book in particular and even while evan's book is very much geared to the beginner it still covers, if at perhaps a more basic level than you might need in some areas, most of the topics likely to come up in Module 1.

[prakel]

Can anyone here offer a review of Bill McKibben's Oil and Honey: The Education of an Unlikely Activist?

[snimmo243]

I hope everyone has had a good christmas!
I just finished re-reading Ted Hooper's Guide to Bees & Honey, I have to say it was a great read and covered lots of stuff not just for the exams but has given me food for thought for my beekeeping plans next year. I did notice that there is a lot of crossover between this book and the Yates study notes for module 1 and the basic beemaster.
I'm off now to start on David Cramp's Practical guide to beekeeeping.

Steven

[snimmo243]

Just finished David camp's practical guide to beekeeping, I thought it was very good, covered all the basics in enough Detail to get you started and was very easy to read. It looks like it has covered most of module 1 as well as touching on Bee genetics which I found fascinating. Just waiting on Ron Brown's wax and Larry connor's queen rearing arriving!

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[Neils]

I like David Cramp's Book a lot, it gets a bit of a bad press because he was a commercial beekeeper in New Zealand when he wrote it and therefore it couldn't possibly apply to 1-2 hive beekeepers in the UK. It could possibly do with a few more diagrams but for beginners I think it's lot more accessible than Hooper.

[snimmo243]

I felt there was a lot in the book for hobbyists. I also liked the fact he doesn't put himself across as an infallible guru but points out some of the mistakes he has made

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[snimmo243]

I got JD Yates monograph (it makes me feel like I'm in a Sherlock Holmes novel) on beekeeping equipment today. I will let you all know what it's like

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[snimmo243]

Hi
I've finished Yates, Beekeeping Equipment, anyone who has read the basic or module 1 study notes will recognise most of the content of this short book. Essentially it raises criticism of aspects of hive and equipment design and proposes short term fixes as well as suggesting a reinstatement and expansion of British Standards.
For me the most interesting parts were around hive and frame design and the problem of propolisation. In particular I am considering employing his runner design

Steven

[gavin]

For those like me (shame!) who haven't read Yates' book, what is the essence of his runner design?

G.

[snimmo243]

Basically instead of the usual triangular profile running into the corner of the rebate he uses a flat piece of metal. The frame lug sits on the edge of the runner reducing the area for propolisation whilst fully maintaining Bee space below the lug
Steven

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[gavin]

Thanks Steven. Castellated spacers without the castellations?! You'd probably need heavier gauge metal to make up for the weakness of the single edge. Let us know if you try it!

[snimmo243]

I suppose that is a better way of describing it than how I did, I will report back my findings

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[brothermoo]

I finished brother Adams beekeeping at buckfast abbey this morning. I read it as Mike Palmer recommends it in one of his talks and I have to say that, differences in breeding ideas aside, I think it is quite a practical book even though its just a description of their practices.
Notwithstanding the prolific use of the words fecundity, prolific and notwithstanding I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Has swayed my thoughts about queen rearing experiments for this season.

___________________________________
sent from my smartphone.. although it doesn't filter my not-so-smart comments

[mbc]

I finished brother Adams beekeeping at buckfast abbey this morning. I read it as Mike Palmer recommends it in one of his talks and I have to say that, differences in breeding ideas aside, I think it is quite a practical book even though its just a description of their practices.
Notwithstanding the prolific use of the words fecundity, prolific and notwithstanding I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Has swayed my thoughts about queen rearing experiments for this season.

___________________________________
sent from my smartphone.. although it doesn't filter my not-so-smart comments


I agree, cut the 'grass is greener' and 'wanderlust' ideology out, and it is a very good read from a thoughtful beekeeper.

[busybeephilip]

Not that I'm recommending the use of Buckfast, but, one has to admire the the fact that today the buckfast line(s) of queens can be traced right back to the beginning even though this breed is in the hands of many different breeders. The parentage of both successful and rejected pairings is known. For the Native bee's being breed, it would be nice to see similar records publicly available on the web. For anyone intending or in the process of breeding native bees such information would be an essential resource to progress a breeding programme and sharing lines of native bees.

[brothermoo]

That'd a good thought phil, I was pondering the inbreeding if everyone is getting their queens from the same source etc.
That would be a great resource but fairly simple to implement I think

___________________________________
sent from my smartphone.. although it doesn't filter my not-so-smart comments

[snimmo243]

I've been looking through the suggested book list for the modular exams ( I just ordered oil seed rape and bees by Alan Calder) some of them are quite expensive though such as honey bee pathology, Bailey and ball £145, crop pollination by bees £100 and a book of honey £115! I think I may need to see if the Moir library has any of them
Steven

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[Black Comb]

This is in IMO the one big problem with these modules. Not only are the books expensive but quite a few are out of print. Used copies are silly prices. For those of us without an association library it's hard work.
You'll be lucky to find the recommended edition of Bailey and Ball at a sensible price.
I've managed OK without it. Dade and Snodgrass are comprehensive.
I bought the Calder book, not that expensive. I do not think it that good.
A Book of Honey, I picked one up much cheaper than that. Again, not that useful.
Crop pollination is ridiculously expensive and I came to the conclusion that about 10 pages of it are realistically useful for the exam, so I did not buy. I do not think you need all of the books on the list. There is quite a bit of overlap.

[snimmo243]

Having started reading the Allan Calder book there are is one thing that jumps out at me. He suggests that bees make little or no difference to the yield of OSR, however this is based on studies carried out at the time of writing in the mid eighties. Does anyone know if there is (surely there must be) more up to date information on this? This in itself makes it clear that the book list needs to be updated with more contemporary works and possibly the SBA, BBKA etc should look at commissioning specific works! One thing I find when reading a lot of the books is that they seem to be written from a southern perspective, which means timings of flowering, inspections etc are all thrown out. For example the timing of your first inspection is often said to be when the temperature reaches 15 or short sleeve weather, this is Scotland sometimes it's never short sleeve weather! :-)

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[prakel]

Not sure if it's of any use to the exam students but McGregor's Insect Pollination Of Cultivated Crop Plants (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ars.usda.gov%2FSP2UserFiles%2 FPlace%2F53420300%2FOnlinePollinationHandbook.pdf&ei=B1VKU-ODCbLd7QberICAAQ&usg=AFQjCNHaUwi8V63eb7sAYHfeGEDM05VTxg&bvm=bv.64542518,d.bGQ)is now available as a pdf with the idea that it's to be continuously updated in the light of changing knowledge. I also believe the book itself has been reprinted too.

Try this more direct one: http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/53420300/OnlinePollinationHandbook.pdf

G.

[Easy beesy]

Hi Prakel - link broken, I'm afraid. Any suggestions?

[prakel]

Hi Prakel - link broken, I'm afraid. Any suggestions?

Hi Easy beesy, just tried it, worked for me first time.... so not sure!

[Easy beesy]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/21/u3a9epaj.jpg
Hope this works

[prakel]

Could it be a tapatalk issue? Never used it myself so I'm not sure, but I've double checked the link and used it while signed out, seems to go through all the time for me.

[snimmo243]

Hi the link works from tapatalk on my phone but it downloads it as a dog
Steven

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[prakel]

All I can do for now is hope that Gavin can fix this example of my general techno ineptitude! -It is a very good resource and well worth looking up.

[snimmo243]

Hi prakel
I've skimmed it on my phone and it looks very interesting, when I get more time I will look at it properly

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[gavin]

It is indeed a classic.

Can't have the forum raining cats and dogs (downloaded a dog??!!) but PDFs are usually quite acceptable. I added this alternative to Prakel's original post, a direct link to the file rather than via Google:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/53420300/OnlinePollinationHandbook.pdf

G.

[prakel]

Thanks for that - I was a little concerned to think of dogs appearing at the end of a link that I'd put up, I mean, where might it all end?

[snimmo243]

Sorry I meant pdf one of the downsides of replying from my mobile I'm afraid! The truth is I thought I had signed up to a dog breeders forum but somehow my jumbled typing has come out in such a way that you beekeeper types seem to know what I'm on about

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[snimmo243]

I recently purchased COLOUR GUIDE TO POLLEN LOADS OF THE HONEY BEE - WILLIAM KIRK. On another thread I asked what colour OSR pollen was as the book shows it as being a greeny colour, following advice I emailed the publisher (IBRA) to ask if this was a printing error. This is the response I got from the author via the publisher.

"Such comments are usually a result of people not following the exact instructions about lighting. If people observe bees in full sun the pollen loads of oilseed rape look yellow. They then look at the book in a different light, possibly indoor lighting, and see that the colour does not match what they remember. However, it is very unlikely to match under different lighting or the wrong lighting. If they get a pollen load and place it next to the chart and compare them in indirect north daylight they should find it matches. Colours are very tricky and matching has to be done in the right way"

So this book, in my opinion, would be very useful if you are using a pollen trap or want to catch individual bees and prise the pollen off their legs, but if you are just observing the comings and goings at the hive entrance it will be difficult to get a proper match rendering the book useless.

Steven

[busybeephilip]

I have a pollen trap and have used it with rape. I also have a copy of this book and I can agree with your comments that the colors in some cases just dont match.

I think its a bit like car paint, the spray can for your exact match can be slightly off, same with household paint strips - they seldom match exactly and same with printing colors on an inkjet the colors can be off. Go into a TV shop and look at the screens, the colors will be different for the same channels all streamed from the same source even for two identical TV models.

I suppose that's life

[snimmo243]

Medical aspects of beekeeping by Harry Riches: I got this book a few weeks ago (after my visit to a&e) and I have to say it is one of the most interesting bee books I've read. It is quite technical in a medical sense but still understandable. When you read the parts about stings and venom it is amazing to think such a wee insect can produce such a potent venom illiciting such a range of impacts on a human body. Also the sections on the medicinal benefits, or lack of, of various hive products is very much to the point.

Sent from my C5303 using Tapatalk

[Wmfd]

Just finished reading "Beekeeping craft and hobby" by A R Cumming and Margaret Logan.

Published in 1950 it is a guide to beekeeping in general. I really enjoyed it, despite it covering a number of things that are in books like Hooper etc, it was done well and gave helpful practical advice.

The sections on swarms and nuclei were good, and there is a really helpful synopsis section at the back.

They were big fans of a 'Glen' hive, it seemed a panacea for many issues. I'd never heard of them before, but they look like a WBC on steroids. Must be a devil to move.

Probably little in there for you experts, but I enjoyed it. 😉

I'm now moving on to the next of my 'vintage' beekeeping book collection.

David

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Wmfd
I have that book as well
I look out for East of Scotland authors in the old bee books
Have a look at the last paragraph page43 and 44 to see what they were saying about bee imports
You find out a lot from old bee books
Here we are 65 years later what do you conclude :)

[Greengage]

I dont have the book and its not on my reading list, my local library doesnot have it, so can you paraphrase what it says,Im curious. book not showing up in google search either

[The Drone Ranger]

I dont have the book and its not on my reading list, my local library doesnot have it, so can you paraphrase what it says,Im curious. book not showing up in google search either

Hi Greengage

2459

2460

Hope this works and is readable

You could get a copy from Abe books
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?kn=Beekeeping+craft+and+hobby%22+by+ A+R+Cumming+and+Margaret+Logan&sts=t
There will be other sellers

Checked and I think the Moir Library has a copy (SBA lending library)

[Wmfd]

Hi Wmfd
I have that book as well
I look out for East of Scotland authors in the old bee books
Have a look at the last paragraph page43 and 44 to see what they were saying about bee imports
You find out a lot from old bee books
Here we are 65 years later what do you conclude :)

Thanks DR, for me the end of the section says it all - the best bees being bred in your own neighbourhood. It then lists characteristics they ascribe to black bees at the top (an element of rose tinted spectacles?).

The big thing I took away was how much there had been a mixture of breeds imported, even that long ago. It reads like a list of fads and fashions, each with their own foibles and challenges - nothing changes much does it?

[Wmfd]

I dont have the book and its not on my reading list, my local library doesnot have it, so can you paraphrase what it says,Im curious. book not showing up in google search either

You're welcome to borrow my copy if it is of interest. I can easily pop in the post.

I'm now on "Bee Farming in Britain" by Herbert Mace, which is proving an odd book.

[The Drone Ranger]

Thanks DR, for me the end of the section says it all - the best bees being bred in your own neighbourhood. It then lists characteristics they ascribe to black bees at the top (an element of rose tinted spectacles?).

The big thing I took away was how much there had been a mixture of breeds imported, even that long ago. It reads like a list of fads and fashions, each with their own foibles and challenges - nothing changes much does it?
Hi Wmfd
Yes it just gives a clearer perspective on things like hybridisation
A lot of French black bees were distributed all over Scotland by Steele and Brodie etc



Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[prakel]

Thanks DR, for me the end of the section says it all - the best bees being bred in your own neighbourhood.

For beginners.

They then go on to say that with experience you can introduce pure bloodlines; this, after previously stating that they believed the native bee was "probably extinct as a pure breed".

Sound like good practical beekeepers to me.

[Wmfd]

For beginners.

They then go on to say that with experience you can introduce pure bloodlines; this, after previously stating that they believed the native bee was "probably extinct as a pure breed".

Sound like good practical beekeepers to me.

Isn't the irony that it seems it is often the other way around, with beginners buying in pure breeds?

I didn't really understand how the experienced beekeeper would use pure breeds, given they say you won't be able to maintain them (unless they expect those beekeepers to keep buying in)?

I found it a good practical book, which was precisely what I liked about it.

[prakel]

Isn't the irony that it seems it is often the other way around, with beginners buying in pure breeds?

I didn't really understand how the experienced beekeeper would use pure breeds, given they say you won't be able to maintain them (unless they expect those beekeepers to keep buying in)?

I found it a good practical book, which was precisely what I liked about it.

I've never read the full book so am at DroneRanger's mercy here! But yes, various snippets which I've seen posted over the years do give a good impression of the authors.

I reckon that the majority of beekeepers probably do use what's local to them rather than imports -with a few just 'trying' the odd one occassionally. When queens are purchased by the casual beekeeper I reckon that the outcome is probably similar to what i see around here where there's a general mishmash of 'stuff' that's been imported and then through almost immediate neglect allowed to blend in to the background population -whatever that may be at this late stage.

Maybe the authors saw the introduction of other stock as a way of upgrading an already mongrelized population.

But of course, buying in any queens whether they come from the mediterranean or a couple of miles down the road can be a gamble if we don't do some research first. As Frank Pellett wrote, in another old book:


There are entirely too many indifferent queen breeders for the good of the industry.

Practical Queen-Rearing by F.C. Pellett

[The Drone Ranger]

A R Cumming , M.A. Secretary of Inverness Beekeepers Association
Margaret Logan was Beekeeping Lecturer at North of Scotland Agricultural College
According to the preface
Don't know any more than that

The book describes what was happening in 1950 and what was considered good advice at the time
You always have to read the books in context with the time they were written

The general advice being given is buy your bees locally
Don't imagine planting a few garden plants will make much difference
Almost all bees in Scotland are hybridised to greater or lesser extent
If you buy in queens of a race or type you will be doing so forever to maintain that
The strain is more important than the breed

I suppose Brother Adam would have been traveling Europe (and beyond) looking for good strains of "pure bred" bees for his breeding experiments

Pellet was a queen breeder and also predicted that resistance to AFB was going to be bred into bees. and that AFB was in the very near future going to be eliminated
Think that was in the 1950's but would have to look that up it was in Les Baileys "Infectious Diseases of the Honeybee"

His comments on Queen Breeders might have been true of breeders at that time though

This is Pellet's description of black bees (took a long while to type just as he wrote it)

"One of the worst objections to the blacks is excitable nature. When the hive is opened they run nervously , and often boil out over the top in a most disconcerting manner.
The queens are difficult to find because of the fact that instead of remaining quietly on the comb attending to business , they run with the workers and often hide. They do not gather as much surplus on the average as Italians, under American conditions, are more inclined to be cross, and are more susceptible to brood diseases.
It is a difficult matter to save an apiary of black bees, once they become infected with European foul- brood. In comparison with Italians the latter have proven so much better that there is a very general tendency to replace the blacks with Italians and in many limited neighborhoods where beekeeping is scientifically followed, the blacks have disappeared."

He then goes on to describe Cyprian bees, Syrians ,Carniolans, Caucasians, Banat bees, Tunisian bees, Egyptians and his favorite Italians

The rest of the book includes things like mini mating nucs and lots of queen rearing methods and equipment well worth a read

Here it's the same though
You need to read Pellet's comments in the context of a man who although he knew full well that the strain was more important than the race he still couldn't help himself from having a rant and tagging on "scientific" at the end to add weight
I was reading a Scientific bee site (American) just a couple of days ago with similar rants fueled by third hand information and prejudice

[prakel]

His comments on Queen Breeders might have been true of breeders at that time though

This is Pellet's description of black bees (took a long while to type just as he wrote it)

"One of the worst objections to the blacks is excitable nature. When the hive is opened they run nervously , and often boil out over the top in a most disconcerting manner.
The queens are difficult to find because of the fact that instead of remaining quietly on the comb attending to business , they run with the workers and often hide. They do not gather as much surplus on the average as Italians, under American conditions, are more inclined to be cross, and are more susceptible to brood diseases.
It is a difficult matter to save an apiary of black bees, once they become infected with European foul- brood. In comparison with Italians the latter have proven so much better that there is a very general tendency to replace the blacks with Italians and in many limited neighborhoods where beekeeping is scientifically followed, the blacks have disappeared."

He then goes on to describe Cyprian bees, Syrians ,Carniolans, Caucasians, Banat bees, Tunisian bees, Egyptians and his favorite Italians

The rest of the book includes things like mini mating nucs and lots of queen rearing methods and equipment well worth a read

Here it's the same though
You need to read Pellet's comments in the context of a man who although he knew full well that the strain was more important than the race he still couldn't help himself from having a rant and tagging on "scientific" at the end to add weight
I was reading a Scientific bee site (American) just a couple of days ago with similar rants fueled by third hand information and prejudice

Not sure that Pellett's comment about the varying quality of queen breeders is limited to his time. There are still plenty that fall into the churn-them-out-grab-the-money brigade with little regard to quality.

I don't want to dwell too much on his comments re the 'black bees' because none of us are aware beyond the literature what the state of the bees in the US was in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

I notice that your quote dosen't include Pelletts previous lines where he speculates on the amount of Spanish blood in the black bee mix that they had, nor do you include his quote from Sladen about the British amm being unsurpassed amongst pure races in our climate. So yes, the context does matter.

Pellett was the author of some superb books. His study of US honey plants is an impressive tome, while it's not the best reference for someone on the jurassic coast I can still appreciate the quality of workmanship which went into it.

A little known fact about F.C.Pellett is that it was at his request that the Dadants modified their hive (by shortening it):


In the meantime the Dadants had carried on with the big hives which they had found so satisfactory in the early years of their experiments. About 1913 the author first met C. P. Dadant at a beekeepers' convention. Being a strong advocate of the Langstroth hive which he used in two stories, he had an animated discussion with Dadant over the hive question. Dadant had fought too many battles over this question to be aggressive. He stated his preference and the reasons therefor and refused to argue with the newcomer. The result was a new examination of his methods on the part of this writer. Finally becoming interested in the large brood chamber, but disliking some features of the old style Dadant hive, a special order was made for seventy-five hives the length of the Langstroth hive but with the deep frame and the one and one-half inch spacing which theDadants used. The result was so pleasing that another convert was made, and so much enthusiasm was manifested that the Dadants decided to modify their old hive and offer it for sale. Thus, in 1920, the Modified Dadant hive was offered to the public. While making concessions to the later developments in the way of minor details, it still retained the principles for which the family had fought for three generations.

History of American Beekeeping by F.C. Pellett

http://chestofbooks.com/animals/bees/History/index.html

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Prakel

I wasn't trying to misrepresent Pellet I could only type that bit and I thought that was long enough

The thing is that all these books were written by people

Often they had their own opinions which may well have been wrong but they influenced and still do influence a lot of peoples thinking

You get a real insight into what was happening/ important at the time

Bandwagons come and go in beekeeping

Modern websites are often more full of bunk than all the old books put together

[prakel]

Pellet was a queen breeder and also predicted that resistance to AFB was going to be bred into bees. and that AFB was in the very near future going to be eliminated
Think that was in the 1950's but would have to look that up it was in Les Baileys "Infectious Diseases of the Honeybee"

A short insight here from a bee breeder who had extensive hands on experience of the subject:


We have more experience with disease-resistant bees now (DR), but some people still don't understand the principles involved. DR bees are not immune to AFB. This section is written to straighten out these misconceptions.

To review, breeding bees resistant to AFB has been progressing since the late 1930's when it was first successfully accomplished by Park, Paddock and Pellett in Iowa. They were successful and within 5 years 95%of their test colonies were disease free (see 1976 Hive and the Honeybee, p175).

Breeding Super Bees by Steve Taber, 1987

[The Drone Ranger]

Well Prakel
"They were successful and within 5 years 95%of their test colonies were disease free"

The common sense question to ask then is where are they?

[prakel]

THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE

My last post quoted Taber who referenced the 1976 edition of Dadants Hive & The Honey bee.

As this is the book thread it's a good opportunity to mention that the new, revised 2015 edition is now out:

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/m00010-hive-and-the-honeybee-new-edition

[prakel]

Hi Prakel

I wasn't trying to misrepresent Pellet I could only type that bit and I thought that was long enough

I didn't think for one minute that you were trying to :).

Just adding some background to the Pellett story.



Well Prakel
"They were successful and within 5 years 95%of their test colonies were disease free"

The common sense question to ask then is where are they?

Same place as the varroa resistant bees?..... Seriously, Taber does go on with the history of DR (!) since the initial studies. Lots of interesting stuff not only in that particular chapter, but the book as a whole. Beyond me why so many people promote the Woodward queen rearing manual and hardly anyone (apart from mbc) ever mentions Taber.

Anyway, afb must be a hard target when legislation demands destruction of all infested colonies in some countries and 'treatment' in others. We're certainly not going to find resistance in the UK.

[Greengage]

Hi Greengage

2459

2460

Hope this works and is readable

You could get a copy from Abe books
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?kn=Beekeeping+craft+and+hobby%22+by+ A+R+Cumming+and+Margaret+Logan&sts=t
There will be other sellers

Checked and I think the Moir Library has a copy (SBA lending library)
Chers tks for that.

[Greengage]

Anyone read this one It has being recommended to me so Ill put it on my wish list.

http://www.amazon.com/Following-Bloom-Douglas-Whynott/dp/1585422800

[prakel]

Anyone read this one It has being recommended to me so Ill put it on my wish list.

http://www.amazon.com/Following-Bloom-Douglas-Whynott/dp/1585422800

Yes, it's an interesting read but i did find it a little hard going in places. Dated of course, but that shouldn't be an issue for this kind of book.

[The Drone Ranger]

Anyway, afb must be a hard target when legislation demands destruction of all infested colonies in some countries and 'treatment' in others. We're certainly not going to find resistance in the UK.

I look at that another way

All honeybee diseases are present at low levels somewhere all the time (paraphrasing Bailey)
Resistance also develops when a creature is exposed to sub lethal levels and survives
So let's say in the case of varroa my bees which are exposed to a low level of varroa because I treat them
And Ron Hoskins untreated bees have about the same chances of developing resistance
(Very low because its mostly the virus issues that kill the bees)

I would say our bees have more chance of developing resistance if they are still alive after exposure to the pest (at least the drones)





Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[prakel]

Hi DR, I don't disagree, in theory, in fact Taber goes on to advocate a practical application of the principle where afb is concerned (while admitting that he was suggesting something which "goes against most state laws concerning afb") but I've tried to avoid detail as it does clearly go against our regulations and could be taken too literally; Ive no time to fend off a lynch mob of the outraged. Anyway, the book's still in print so I shouldn't quote too much :). As things stand, I don't see how we're going to find afb resistance in the UK if all cases are reported, as they should be without question.

[The Drone Ranger]

http://www.scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/My%20Beekeeping%20Year.pdf

There is a bit of something for everyone in the (free) download from Ian Craig
Strong opinions (sensible ones though) and a step by step approach make it well worth a read
Haven't tried the salt for chalkbrood tip yet
Possibly it might make them tastier for birds when the bees throw them out :)
Barbecued is my preferred option at the moment

[busybeephilip]

I look at that another way

All honeybee diseases are present at low levels somewhere all the time (paraphrasing Bailey)
Resistance also develops when a creature is exposed to sub lethal levels and survives




Its an interesting theory and one I believe to be correct. It begs the question, how many hives have been destroyed due to a sub leathal presence of AFB detected by PCR.
If one was to PCR varroa mites I'm sure AFB would be found. I theorize that this years really bad AFB outbreaks here in Northern Ireland coupled with bad summer weather is partly due to the much higher levels of varroa and subsequent spread by this vector rather than moving hives, after all varroa spreads rather fast accross the country from county to county

[gavin]

On the discussion on AFB there was talk of resistant lines being held by the same Margaret Logan mentioned above. They were reputedly 'of the dark European race' (Robert Couston - 1989 - Fly With the Beeman, p77). Margaret Logan is pictured in Beowolf Cooper's book on British native honeybees, taken during a visit to her apiary. You might still be able to identify such stocks today if they remain clean in an infected apiary but breeding from them would be impossible unless you were allowed to keep the disease around to identify resistant daughters. The University of Sussex have pinned their hopes on freeze-killed brood being helpful in identifying AFB resistant stocks but the real mechanisms are likely to be more complex than that.


Its an interesting theory and one I believe to be correct. It begs the question, how many hives have been destroyed due to a sub leathal presence of AFB detected by PCR.
If one was to PCR varroa mites I'm sure AFB would be found. I theorize that this years really bad AFB outbreaks here in Northern Ireland coupled with bad summer weather is partly due to the much higher levels of varroa and subsequent spread by this vector rather than moving hives, after all varroa spreads rather fast accross the country from county to county

On PCR, it has been mentioned recently and might allow a shook swarm to clean the stock before the disease breaks out. Subclinical infections don't generate a destruction notice.

Surely the recent splurge of AFB discoveries in N Ireland is just the latest in a series of catching up events after years of neglect? By neglect I mean a failure to identify and report the disease. Once it has spread enough there is that eureka moment when there is a realisation that there is an issue and inspector effort reveals a spreading problem. How that spread takes place is very often via one or more beekeepers with diseased stock and equipment selling the disease with bees ... or equipment .... plus some additional spread from infected apiaries to neighbouring ones. Our last eureka moment here was in 2009. Discoveries continue, and the pleasing thing is that beekeeper-reported discoveries are more common now. What I mean is that it is not just the inspectors finding it.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Gavin
Thats good background info on Margaret Logan thank you

I have two copies of Bob Couston's "Principles of Practical Beekeeping" one is reprint for general stick finger use
The other is a first edition (not in perfect condition though) which had a little hand written letter inside the pages
2462
Don't know who the sender was or recipient but it's interesting just the same to know the book was recommended reading :)

[gavin]

I can think of only one experienced beekeeper by the name of Bernard that plied his trade in Scotland! Could be a letter worth preserving :).

[The Drone Ranger]

No real clues though Gavin except the show being entered was in July and it could be Birmingham although it looks like Bigham
The person being written to (Trevor) apparently is retiring no date address nothing :)

Sent from my LIFETAB_S1034X using Tapatalk

[alclosier]

It looks like b'gham to me, you're probably correct in you suggestion on Birmingham.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk