Robbing bar stewards

[fatshark]

Just over a month ago we had the BBC telling us that the cold, late spring had devastated the wasp population (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23356578) and now I'm inundated with the little blighters. I caught a couple of hundred in a wasp trap on Sunday afternoon. They're like a plague around my mini-nucs. I don't remember it being this bad for at least 5 years. To add insult to injury there's obviously some robbing going on in one if my apiaries (by bees). Huge excitement outside the hive - but little fighting - and I can't really tell whether these strong colonies are being robbed or doing the robbing. The nucs next to them are - so far at least - untouched.

I have late grafts due to emerge next week and daren't put them into mini-nucs so will split colonies into 3 frame nucs for mating.

Are others seeing more that normal robbing and jaspers?

[The Drone Ranger]

Lots of wasps this year I had one weak apidea overpowered

[Bumble]

Inspected today and found a lot of wasps inside the hives, the bees were ignoring them. I hope it doesn't turn nasty.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Bumble
Apparently if they acquire the hive scent they can walk around after sneaking past the guard bees
It will turn nasty, narrow entrances are some protection
Wasp traps are also needed at this time of year
cut a cross in a honey jar lid, push the centre in a little , half fill with raspberry jam and water
They go in can't fly out and drown

[Adam]

Bumble. Hoping is not an option. D.R. is right, it will turn nasty.

Reduced entrances definitely. (Pencil size). Consider closing the hives up for a couple of days to give the bees time to recover and for the wasps to look elsewhere - maybe they will find traps if the hives are closed?? (ensure they have room and ventillation if shut up). Then very small entrances.

[Bridget]

Found my little nuc being ferociously robbed by other bees this morning. Entrance was already closed down to one bee but the noise from the inside of the hive tells me that its full of bees whereas on Monday it just had a small cluster. I was going to unite this nuc with another colony today. Should I close it right up with the robbers inside and maybe wait a few days before trying to unite? I was feeding it syrup.

[fatshark]

I'd close it then move it away. Uniting now will ensure the robbing will continue. Once they've reorientated you should be able to move them back and unite.

Robbing is worse this year than the last 5 ... both wasps and bees.

Probably neonics.

[Mellifera Crofter]

I'd close it then move it away. ...
But close it in the evening when the robbers have left, or close it now in the daytime and move the hive away with robbers and all?
Kitta

[Bridget]

Well they have been robbing the larvae as well, as if I didn't have few enough of them. I smoked and watered the entrance to the nuc and all the other hives to boot. Stood there for about 30 mins smoking the entrance so the robbers came out and then smoked any that came near. This cut the numbers down a bit. Found the new queen in there so after a strong coffee I'm going out to catch her, cage her with some attendants and put her in the hive she was intended for. (That will be a first if I am successful). Then I shall try and save what little there is left of the unhatched bood and move the nuc away away. Cant wait till tonight as there wont be anything left.
No neonics here Fat Shark - if there were if would give me a reason for the poor performance of my queens this summer.

[Jon]

I was feeding it syrup.

That is the cause of the problem. feeding syrup at this time of year is almost certain to induce robbing from both bees and wasps.
The only thing you can do is move it 3 miles or more away or it is a goner.
Unless a colony is on the point of starving, feeding syrup does far more harm than good at this time of year.
A frame of stores from another colony or a block of fondant would be a much better option. The syrup puts the wasps into a complete frenzy.

Bumble. If you have wasps walking around unchallenged inside a hive you can measure its life expectancy in days. Again, you need to move it away somewhere.

[Jon]

Probably neonics.

Only a matter of time till we get some guff about neonics making bees susceptible to robbers.
If only these pesky shills would stop suggesting that some bee problems are not caused by Imidacloprid.

[Black Comb]

One of the supposed benefits of Ambrosia etc is that it does not induce robbing.
They are certainly nowhere near as excited as e.g. when you put a wet super back on.
I have had nothing come in for over 3 weeks now so had to feed in one apiary yesterday. Only a small feed of Ambrosia and I fed all the hives which again is supposed to reduce robbing.
I agree, this is the worst year for robbing and wasps in my 6 years of BK.

[Jon]

The wasps go mad for invert sugar like they do for any sugar.

[The Drone Ranger]

Only feed at night,use rapid feeders, don't spill , take the syrup to them in several sealed and washed 2ltr plastic milk containers or similar, small entrances etc it all helps

[Jon]

Bloody wasps are active from first light right up to dusk though.
I honestly don't know why bees are being given syrup in August.
I feed my bees a bit before winter like a lot of beekeepers but I usually start in late September.
Might have to be a bit earlier further north I suppose.
I used to mess around feeding nucs with syrup and I often had the problems described in this thread so I stopped.
There are a load of posts now about people who have had difficulties after feeding syrup so I reckon that is sending out a clear message.
It is good to get some feed into a nuc but the robbing is a massive risk you have to take on board.

[Black Comb]

Well Jon, I feed because otherwise they would starve. Colony numbers are at their peak and after the supers are off they soon chomp through a reasonable amount of stores. No balsam in these parts. Fondant is a good suggestion.
I have never seen as many wasps as this year.
Agree winter feed time is September.

[Trog]

Why not leave the supers on a bit longer? The bees will remove what they need and the rest is yours.

[Bumble]

Inspected today and found a lot of wasps inside the hives, the bees were ignoring them. I hope it doesn't turn nasty.
I shouldn't have written 'a lot', it wasn't really but with each colony I saw one, two or three wasps mingling with the bees. .


Bumble. Hoping is not an option. D.R. is right, it will turn nasty.


Bumble. If you have wasps walking around unchallenged inside a hive you can measure its life expectancy in days. Again, you need to move it away somewhere.
Thanks for the warnings. It's appreciated. :)

First of all there are a lot of wasps around at the moment. I'd agree with Black Comb and say there are more than I've seen for a good few years. One nest has been dealt with, but there must be many, many, more that we don't know about. They're scouting just above ground level, I'm not sure what they're looking for. I think that, because the spring was so late arriving here, their colonies are at the wrong point of growth for the time of year.

We've still got masses of bumblebees. Same as with the wasps, there are far more than I've seen for years. They should have died back by now, but there are still workers gathering nectar.

I sat and carefully watched each hive entrance for about ten minutes today, to see if there was a lot of wasp activity. A couple of brave wasps tried to get in, but they were quickly repelled by a cloud of guards. The entrances are one bee space high and about two wide, all colonies are strong. (The one on double shallows isn't in this apiary. I didn't see any wasps anywhere near it, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.)

When was inspecting yesterday. The hives had been smoked so I think the bees didn't notice the scent of the strangers in their midst. I will keep a close eye on them.

[Bridget]

Well they have been robbing the larvae as well, as if I didn't have few enough of them. I smoked and watered the entrance to the nuc and all the other hives to boot. Stood there for about 30 mins smoking the entrance so the robbers came out and then smoked any that came near. This cut the numbers down a bit. Found the new queen in there so after a strong coffee I'm going out to catch her, cage her with some attendants and put her in the hive she was intended for. (That will be a first if I am successful). Then I shall try and save what little there is left of the unhatched bood and move the nuc away away. Cant wait till tonight as there wont be anything left.
No neonics here Fat Shark - if there were if would give me a reason for the poor performance of my queens this summer.
All successfully done - await the new day to see what that may bring. I also added a small frame with a few eggs and larvae to the shook out colony from Monday. It came from Jenbee a sometime lurker and poster on this site and a new friend who moved 2 miles down the road from me in the winter. Our new association for Speyside got us together and she is very generous. As is Drone Ranger who sent me a couple of queens in the post and they have been introduced to their new colonies, one of them today. I think I learnt quite a lot - I hope so - I seemed to spend most of the day out there:). I dumped the nuc and the tattered remains of frames and larvae the other end of the garden - nothing worth saving so lucky to save the queen in time. Point taken about syrup - didn't realise and won't do it again. (is there an emoticon for smacked wrist?)

[lindsay s]

I feed my bees a bit before winter like a lot of beekeepers but I usually start in late September.
Might have to be a bit earlier further north I suppose.
You are dead right there Jon.
Not much forage coming in at the moment so the porter escapes went on the crown boards today and entrance blocks were fitted to all hives to help cut down on any robbing. All the supers will be removed on Friday night and all my hives will be fed syrup before I go home. I’m not going to change what I’ve been doing for the last 30+ years. The honey flow was intermittent and while two hives did well this year’s crop will be below average.:( The robbing at Sue’s apiary has now calmed down (see page 161 post 1606 todays news) and she has removed most of her supers. For those of you who need it Tesco’s have 5 kilo bags of sugar for £3.99 and I’ll be back there for more tomorrow.

[The Drone Ranger]

All successfully done - await the new day to see what that may bring. (is there an emoticon for smacked wrist?)
Well done Bridget
LOL!! smacked wrist emoticon :)
I shoot myself in the foot regularly
That's the emoticon I would need

[Bridget]

Well done Bridget
LOL!! smacked wrist emoticon :)
I shoot myself in the foot regularly
That's the emoticon I would need

Try this http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/shoot-foot.gif (http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html)
Slap wrist does not exist sadly.

[drumgerry]

For those of you who need it Tesco’s have 5 kilo bags of sugar for £3.99 and I’ll be back there for more tomorrow.

Not sure that I'm going to need to feed them much this year at all. Most of my brood boxes are choc a bloc with clover honey and they are now going demented on the heather - happy days!

[gavin]

Worth swapping a couple of frames for foundation so that they have space to raise brood on the current bonanza? You can always replace them later.

Plenty of heather honey going in (largely to the brood boxes) on a visit to the hills yesterday.

[mbc]

I honestly don't know why bees are being given syrup in August.


I'm not with you on this one Jon.
I find feeding at this time of year can be hugely productive in the right circumstances, like putting another brood box on a hive to clear a pile of supers down onto, feeding like hell then splitting and adding a queen, I do it on most powerful colonies that havent gone to the heather and its a very easy way of making increase. Without the feed not much would happen in the second box but without the second box they would be a bit cramped. I also judiciously keep feeding any nucs I deem would benefit to build them up for winter, it works for me.

[gavin]

I too worried about this advice. Now is your last chance - in most parts of Scotland anyway - to build the strength of small ones for the winter. Murray has a similar approach and builds small late splits at this time of year. Natural forage if you are lucky, feeding if not. Ivy flows are rare in Scotland and the minor ones I've seen at my main site some autumns is unusual. When I mentioned it to locals and some bee farmers they hadn't seen any ivy flow themselves.

[Jon]

We must have different conditions.
I often see colonies or nucs getting clogged up with stores from overfeeding - or getting robbed during syrup feeding.

Tonight at the association apiary I transferred a colony someone had donated, from an 8 frame box into a 6 frame poly nuc.
5 of the 8 frames were completely full of capped stores and the queen had absolutely nowhere left to lay.
I removed three frames and gave a drawn comb which was handy and will remove a couple more tomorrow to be replaced with drawn comb.
Overfeeding is far more common than underfeeding and filling a box full of stores mid August is far too early, imho.

MBC. I can see how putting on a second brood box and feeding might work if you want to do a split and introduce another queen.
I do similar by removing the top box and bees from the queenright cellraisers.

[mbc]

Tonight at the association apiary I transferred a colony someone had donated, from an 8 frame box into a 6 frame poly nuc.

Overfeeding is far more common than underfeeding and filling a box full of stores mid August is far too early, imho.


The six frame poly nucs are a case in point, feed them until they build comb up to the crown board and they are ready for transferring into a full size box (with a very small entrance).

I would agree that overfeeding is more common than underfeeding, but there is a happy medium.
Another reason to feed in August would be to get foundation drawn, ideal time to take advantage of tate and lyle rather than god given precious nectar.

[The Drone Ranger]

Try this http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/shoot-foot.gif (http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html)
Slap wrist does not exist sadly.

Brilliant where you find them I don't know :)
I've nicked that for a while Bridget

[fatshark]

I've lost a mini-nuc to bl@@dy wasps ... the bees absconded rather than stay and get decimated. I arrived home to find them flying over the fence in a small swirling mass. It was mid-afternoon and warm, so hoped it was a bit of late season, near-apiary, hanky-panky from my darkish bees (whatever Photoshop trickery Gavin applies!).

Alas. They didn't return.

Fast running out of drones here for mating :(

[gavin]

Gimp. Its free and I'm such a cheapskate!

Hope to have another look at these Glen Clova Apideas we looked at tomorrow.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[Jon]

I've lost a mini-nuc to bl@@dy wasps ... the bees absconded rather than stay and get decimated. I arrived home to find them flying over the fence in a small swirling mass. It was mid-afternoon and warm, so hoped it was a bit of late season, near-apiary, hanky-panky from my darkish bees (whatever Photoshop trickery Gavin applies!).

Alas. They didn't return.

Fast running out of drones here for mating :(

Should have run at them holding a frame in the air (http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/entry.php?655-Catching-an-apidea-swarm).
Worked for me and my queen was laying 3 days later.

I checked a few colonies at the association apiary earlier and they are still packed with drones, hundreds in each colony.

[fatshark]

For a variety of reasons ... 6ft fence, main road, aggravated neighbour, lethargy, absence of suitable Ley lines, residual neonics, gasping for a cuppa ... it never crossed my mind to chase them waving a frame in the air. I'll know next time.

[Jon]

That's my top top for the day.

[gavin]

Top tip of the year I reckon. Those who only peek at the forum via Tapatalk miss so much. Maybe they'll issue an update that does Blogs too.

[gavin]

I reckon next time you should try tanging at the same time as waving the Apidea frame in the air (was it an Apidea one? Can't remember, can't check!) to help them along. Only as they came from an Apidea you may have to tang with a thimble, or maybe one of these foil trays little individual fruit tarts come in. A saucepan would be right out.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[Bridget]

Top tip of the year I reckon. Those who only peek at the forum via Tapatalk miss so much. Maybe they'll issue an update that does Blogs too.
Thats me - rarely use anything but Tapatalk so went to have a look at the Blogs and realised anyone can add a blog. Never knew that , thought it was just the great and the good. I can see that sometimes its more appropriate to write a blog than a long post.

[Jon]

The blog is also useful as a reference for yourself.
If you are trying to remember when something or other actually happened.

[gavin]

Yes, useful as a personal online diary. All the key moments in the life of your apiary in one place, if you like. As it is for public consumption, not really suitable for all the details of hive records, veterinary treatments etc, but useful for key events, and showing folk whatssapnin with your bees and a more logical way to present a continuing story. Under my 'ESBA Apiarist' pseudonym I use it (occasionally!) to show what we're up to there - initially to help demonstrate the appropriate spending of Awards for All funding.

As for the hope of getting vBulletin Blogs integrated into Tapatalk, this was from April last year on the Tapatalk Support forum:

Questioner: Will tapatalk be able to access the Vbulletin blog in the future?

Tapatalk Plug-in developer (in his own words): No determinate plan for this support.

A bit sad, given the growth of the use of Tapatalk on here and other fora.

[Bridget]

Yes I really like Tapatalk though the new iPhone App upgrade is a bit weird. Taking longer than I'd like to find my way around it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[The Drone Ranger]

Gimp.
Linux
Way to go:)

What's an Iphone??

[The Drone Ranger]

Thats me - rarely use anything but Tapatalk so went to have a look at the Blogs and realised anyone can add a blog. Never knew that , thought it was just the great and the good. I can see that sometimes its more appropriate to write a blog than a long post.
Hi Bridget
Has all the robbing stopped now ?
Himalayan balsam round here is where their attention is now