sugar syrup

[snimmo243]

I've been feeding my two newly aquired nucs 2:1 sugar/water syrup, partly to settle them in but also to aid them in drawing out a lot of foundation, however i have found the syrup is crystalizing does anyone have any suggestions on how to stop this

steven

[Jon]

Feeding sugar syrup is a bad idea at the moment with so many wasps around.
Bees should only be fed when stores are very low, or in autumn when they are being prepared to overwinter.
Your nucs could get robbed out if the wasps decide to go for the syrup.
If they have some stores just let them build up naturally.
The limiting factor to growth is the amount of bees in the nuc rather than the amount of feed coming in.
They will draw foundation when they need more space and not before.
It is difficult to get foundation drawn at this time of the year but they might do it when the ivy flow starts.
Feeding syrup blocks up all the cells and leaves the queen nowhere to lay.

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Steven
Crystalising is a problem in contact feeders not so much in rapid feeders
When you make up 2:1 hot water is needed and it's best to stir and leave stir and leave then let it sit overnight to see if there are still sugar granules in the bottom
If there are it will crystalise in your feeder
If the syrup is just 1:1 bees can use it more easily but it goes moldy if you try storing it
Drawing wax needs honey or syrup (or a very good flow) because it reputedly takes 8lb on honey to draw 1lb of wax
Also you need bees of the right age and critically heat
So if you put foundation over the broodnest in a hive and feed they will draw the wax the heat from the broodnest coming up helps
If you put foundation at either side of the broodnest and feed they will plug up all the space with syrup before trying to draw the foundation and it will be slow because the temperature is not right
When you get a swarm they will draw wax fast they are programmed to do this (lots of waxmakers)
So if you feed a swarm syrup they have the fuel they need to do this
By putting more foundation over the first lot and keeping feeding they will keep drawing wax
If you stop feeding even for a few days bees convert to nectar collectors and no amount of syrup will make them go back to drawing wax
This does not work with artificial swarms
So it's the old catch 22 they need the food but they need to produce a bigger broodnest
Very small entrances are essential for guard bees otherwise some robbing will start and its sayonara
I have found this year that 60lb fishing line strung through holes in the frame and a small starter about 1" at the top of the frame gets the fastest result
Instead of having to work on a big flat cool surface they can start at the top and work their way down both sides at once only the thickness of the comb
Here's someone who seems to agree with some of that
http://mainebee.com/articles/found.php

I know you have lots of beekeeping experience Steven and don't need this advice but I hope you don't mind because it will be useful to some readers possibly :)

[snimmo243]

Hi thanks for the input I am always open to any advice from anyone so thanks again, it's rapid feeders I'm using and even these have been gummed up a bit it seems I've been a bit last minute in making up my syrup so will leave it a bit longer as you suggest DR. The reason I'm feeding them is due to them being in Smith/commercial conversion frames and I want them on as many full commercial frames going into winter as possible. On the wasps I have taken precautions, as an aside just after placing the first nuc I discovered a wasp bink in the ground opposite the hive!!!!!!!
Steven

[Jon]

The wasps are a menace at the moment.
Have you no spare drawn comb?
I find at this time of year it is hard to get foundation drawn out even in a strong colony.

[The Drone Ranger]

Same here Jon
Even when they obviously need to get on with it.
A swarm making brand new comb is so valuable earlier in the season
even if the chuck some syrup in it you can easily get that cleared out

On the wasp front jam + water in the wasp traps is good
Bees ignore jam , wasps love it (so do I ) :)

[snimmo243]

Hi Jon they are drawing the foundation out well I don't have drawn comb because I'm moving from Smith to commercial

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Jon they are drawing the foundation out well I don't have drawn comb because I'm moving from Smith to commercial

You might be ok with the thinner syrup at the moment
If they are using as it comes in
Can't imagine moving from Smiths I'm a fan :)

[Mellifera Crofter]

... Here's someone who seems to agree with some of that
http://mainebee.com/articles/found.php

I know you have lots of beekeeping experience Steven and don't need this advice but I hope you don't mind because it will be useful to some readers possibly :)

Thanks DR - I certainly found your post and the link useful.
Kitta

[chris]

Yes, DR, interesting link. There is one thing though that I disagree with-spacing in supers. I always give supers one less frame than the brood boxes. My suppliers even sell spacers for 9 frames for supers, for putting on brood boxes with spacers for 10 frames. I find that the frames are more or less regularly drawn out, and each cell holds more honey. Does the super contain more or less honey? I wouldn't know. But it's one frame per super less to be extracted. Never had any problems.

[Bridget]

Thanks DR - I certainly found your post and the link useful.
Kitta
I found it interesting and useful as well. Never knew not to mix drawn comb with foundation. My supers are full of it. Better get some of them sorted out.

[snimmo243]

You might be ok with the thinner syrup at the moment
If they are using as it comes in
Can't imagine moving from Smiths I'm a fan :)

The reason I'm moving to commercial is to give a bigger brood space, without the hassle of doublespeak or brood and a half. at the moment my converted Smith can still take Smith supers and it will mean that in the future if creating nucs for others I can do it onto Smith frames whilst maintaining my bigger brood space, I plan to get proper commercial hives next year therefore providing some flexibility

[mbc]

I found it interesting and useful as well. Never knew not to mix drawn comb with foundation. My supers are full of it. Better get some of them sorted out.

Mixing drawn comb in a super of foundation is a fine way to get bees into a super they might otherwise ignore, who cares if they draw the foundation next to the drawn comb a bit shallow ? it can easily be sorted out before using again.

[Bridget]

Mixing drawn comb in a super of foundation is a fine way to get bees into a super they might otherwise ignore, who cares if they draw the foundation next to the drawn comb a bit shallow ? it can easily be sorted out before using again.

Well mine were certainly ignoring most of the frames but especially the foundation. But at present my bees could are only worthy of a very dark tv series or novel - murder.

[beejazz]

Mixing drawn comb in a super of foundation is a fine way to get bees into a super they might otherwise ignore, who cares if they draw the foundation next to the drawn comb a bit shallow ? it can easily be sorted out before using again.

Yes, but what about the extra fat comb the bees draw out next to the foundation?!

[Jon]

Deeper cells are easily tidied up later with a sharp knife. Just pare them back a little where the cells are deeper.
You see this often in a brood box if two frames have not been pushed tightly together. The bees draw out the cells at the top more deeply to use for honey storage.