Gardening forum ?

[greengumbo]

Well my bee friendly garden is finally taking shape !

450 bulbs went in at the weekend, bit late but they were delivered late ! Mostly crocus, snowdrops, snakehead fritillary but also a lot more unusual stuff. My primula vulgaris plugs are in along with pulmonaria, wood anenome and a load of others. I recently redid my bathroom so have the old bath filled with all sorts of goodies next to the hive. Roll on spring !!

I was wondering if anyone knows of a decent garden forum maybe focused on NE Scotland but not necessarily ? I just need a bit of advice about improving claggy clay based soil for planting up bareroot trees that arrive in a few weeks and have a few other questions not bee related.

Thanks as usual !

[gavin]

Sounds wonderful. I took charge of an allotment on Saturday. Needs a bit of work - I'm wondering where I can buy dynamite and industrial-strength herbicides!

There was a forum callled NEEPS North East (Scotland) Eco-something or other, but having just had a look I suspect that it has been hacked. Pity. At one stage it had a guy called Martin on it with an avatar identical to that of one of the rabid anti-pesticide folk on another bee forum or two.

The allotment holder count on the forum seems to be climbing - another stalwart is thinking of getting one and there are a few already with one.

As for claggy soil, just dig a hole for planting and work in leaf mould/compost/composted bark or whatever into the soil in the hole and also into the soil you're going to put back in the hole once you've spread the roots around.

[Trog]

Don't forget the roots will eventually go further than your planting hole. With claggy clay, dig as deep as you can and fork the base of the hole to assist drainage. Horse manure is great mixed with the soil/clay until you have time to make leaf mould. For the latter, those one ton woven bags used to deliver building sand, etc, are ideal. Pack with damp leaves and a bit of fresh horse or poultry manure to get it going. Failing that, I understand recycled beer (as Bob Flowerdew calls it) is good! Tread down as best you can and you'll get a lot of leaves into it. Fold over the top and weight it with a plank and a brick/stone. Ours is usually ready the following spring if done this way .. far quicker than the old chicken wire method.

[greengumbo]

Sounds good. I have about 15m of native hedging to go in, 7 fruit tree maidens and 2 bush sized apple trees.....better get digging !! I'll be using a bailing bucket if this rain continues.

[gavin]

Trog, I might feel a little over-exposed recycling beer atop one of those 1 ton fabric bag things! Especially during my probationary period at the allotments.

[Trog]

Indeed, Gavin, a different sort of probation might be the result! Surely your allotment isn't surrounded by broadleaved trees, though? Best place for a leafmould bin is under a big tree where nothing grows and near the source of the material! Gumbo, I'm sure you know not to dig clay in wet weather and just joking ...?

[Mellifera Crofter]

I bought my bare-root hedging trees, willows and crabapples from Bob Davis of Forvie Tree Nursery. He told me to just make a slit in the earth with a spade, stick in a tree, and then heel down the earth. That's what I did. I wouldn't have been able to plant 300-odd trees if I had to dig holes and prepare them with leaf mould. My trees aren't flourishing, but I think that's because of this exposed, wind-swept hill on which I live (and some deer munching at my trees), rather than not digging holes.

I suppose the point of my story, Greengumbo, is that there's a really good place near you where you can get good advice and trees.
Kitta

[gavin]

I suppose the point of my story, Greengumbo, is ...
Kitta

And I suppose that native hedging ought to be able to survive less than optimal soil preparation?

Trog, the first empty allotment I was shown had tall broadleaved trees along its S edge but I turned my nose up at the shade cast on that one. The one I chose is sunny and treeless, so devoid of leaf litter. Any beer-recycling will be for other purposes.

I'm drifting away from bees now. Should I moderate myself?!

[EmsE]

As children, my Grandad used to have us digging over the garden about this time of year to let the frost break the soil down. He said it was the best way to deal with clay soil and the harder the winter the better as it kills off a lot of the slugs. Whilst the soil was clay, we had less rain in those days (that's what it feels like anyway) so digging at this time of year wasn't a problem.

After removing about 40 of those leylendi (excuse the spelling) trees this year, I planted my edible hedge the other weekend- much more friendly to the wildlife and hungry Children.

I've been looking to get an allotment site for a while now and have been advised of a site with some spaces so fingers crossed.

[Jon]

I have had my local council based allotment for 12 years now.
I used to pay £25 a year for it but they hiked it up to £70 at the start of this year.
They gave me permission to keep bees on it but I don't think they have counted recently as I have a stack of colonies and nucs hidden discretely behind a pallet fence. I keep meaning to move most of the nucs to my back garden.

I have zero tolerance for cranky bees as I cannot afford for anyone to get stung.

1315 1314 1316

Luckily my allotment is at the far end and I have a boundary of a railway fence along one side and a high hedge on the other.

They are good sized plots averaging 25m by 10m

We have about 50 plotholders and I have made a lot of good friends there.
I get a call on the mobile if another plotholder spots anyone walking around my plot so it is great to have some security.
We have a couple of guys who challenge any stranger who decide to take a walk around.

I grow a lot of fruit and the 8 damson trees I planted 10 years ago are now bearing.
I have a load of blackcurrant, gooseberry and raspberry as well.
Other than that I grow spuds, parsnips, peas, beans and carrots and salad stuff such as lettuce and rocket.

We have really light well draining sandy soil as the allotments are on some sort of a glacial feature which dumped sand on top of the base clay which is everywhere else in Belfast.

[GRIZZLY]

Greengumbo ,if the ground gets completely sodden (claggy) just dig a trench and heel everything into it until next year. Trees and shrubs will survive quite happily like this until the ground dries out in the spring when you can plant everything out safely. If your ground is clay , you shouldnt disturb it too much this time of the year - it will turn into something potters and brickmakers would like to see. If you can work the clay soil, you should dig lots of gravel and leaf mould or other organic material into the patch to aid drainage and lighten things up.

[greengumbo]

Greengumbo ,if the ground gets completely sodden (claggy) just dig a trench and heel everything into it until next year. Trees and shrubs will survive quite happily like this until the ground dries out in the spring when you can plant everything out safely. If your ground is clay , you shouldnt disturb it too much this time of the year - it will turn into something potters and brickmakers would like to see. If you can work the clay soil, you should dig lots of gravel and leaf mould or other organic material into the patch to aid drainage and lighten things up.

Cheers for the advice everyone. I gave it a good turning over a few weeks back and then haven't been near it other than to move the chickens onto it. They seem to have done a good job of scratching about and fertilizing !

I'll see what happens now the rain has stopped and leave it alone if too claggy. Is it worth digging in sand along with gravel and compost if I can work it ? I have a heap of rotted sheep manure as well.

"After removing about 40 of those leylendi (excuse the spelling) trees this year, I planted my edible hedge the other weekend- much more friendly to the wildlife and hungry Children."

I'm basically doing the same but my evil leylandii count is only 25 ! The roots were a killer to get rid off but mr mini digger worked some magic and avoided the water pipe :)

Budleias, Winter jasmine, sedum and winter honeysuckle arrived today :) I can't wait till next year !

[Jon]

There is a weed clearing concept in Permaculture called 'chicken tractor'
If you leave your chooks to scratch around for long enough they will clear everything.

[Bumble]

Even though we're no longer in Scotland we still try to watch Beechgrove Garden online. There are various fact sheets on the website, but they're listed by programme rather than what they contain. http://www.thebeechgrovegarden.com/factsheets

There are a good few gardening forums that are worth browsing. This one has a subforum for beekeeping http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/grapevine/forum.php Here are a couple more http://chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php and http://forum.downsizer.net

[greengumbo]

Even though we're no longer in Scotland we still try to watch Beechgrove Garden online. There are various fact sheets on the website, but they're listed by programme rather than what they contain. http://www.thebeechgrovegarden.com/factsheets

There are a good few gardening forums that are worth browsing. This one has a subforum for beekeeping http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/grapevine/forum.php Here are a couple more http://chat.allotment.org.uk/index.php and http://forum.downsizer.net

Hi Bumble ! Coincidently our cottage and garden were once (16 years ago) owned by Carol Baxter from Beechgrove garden. Sadly the owners after her did nothing to the garden so its been overgrown ever since. We have restored some small plots but many of the plants needed constant pruning and its not been done so has had to come out.

Well we have finished the planting this year other than the hedging next week. Soil is sodden at the moment so I will plant the hedging and trees with some compost and bone meal but leave the rest till next year to give a good improving. Green manure such as borage / phacelia seems the way to go and bees love them :)

[Easy beesy]

Poached egg plant is cheap and easy -long flowering season, ground cover - annual mind you so dig it in and the seeds will come up again next year.

[madasafish]

We moved into our house 32 years ago. Clay and garden had grass , three apple trees and zero bulbs. We have planted over 2,000 bulbs and have now thousands of naturalised snowdrops, crocus and bluebells.

To improve the soil, I have three large compost heaps in strategic parts of teh garden and recycle all our garden waste: wood is chipped and composted and leaves composted for two years.

We apply. a 10cm mulch of compost every year to worst affected areas.. and rarely dig anything so we now have a top 25-40cm layer of fine soil on top of clay. Drainage is OK as we are on a slight slope.

Great for rasps/plums/damsons and apples.

Phacelia ,poppies, borage, and poached egg plants and provide annual bee food. Five Evodia (Korean bee trees are just waiting to be planted.

1/2 mile away the local brook has Himalayan Balsam along its banks for 4 miles..

(No arable land within 5 mile radius, so no OSR etc.Just gardens, woodland and lots of wild flowers).

Cold and wet winters - edge of Peak District.. 200m above sea level.)

[greengumbo]

We moved into our house 32 years ago. Clay and garden had grass , three apple trees and zero bulbs. We have planted over 2,000 bulbs and have now thousands of naturalised snowdrops, crocus and bluebells.

To improve the soil, I have three large compost heaps in strategic parts of teh garden and recycle all our garden waste: wood is chipped and composted and leaves composted for two years.

We apply. a 10cm mulch of compost every year to worst affected areas.. and rarely dig anything so we now have a top 25-40cm layer of fine soil on top of clay. Drainage is OK as we are on a slight slope.

Great for rasps/plums/damsons and apples.

Phacelia ,poppies, borage, and poached egg plants and provide annual bee food. Five Evodia (Korean bee trees are just waiting to be planted.

1/2 mile away the local brook has Himalayan Balsam along its banks for 4 miles..

(No arable land within 5 mile radius, so no OSR etc.Just gardens, woodland and lots of wild flowers).

Cold and wet winters - edge of Peak District.. 200m above sea level.)

Sounds great :)

I have started to compost everything the chickens dont eat. I chipped the leylandii trimmings a few months back and it has browned nicely. Going to use it to line some paths but I was also tempted to use it around the fruit trees as mulch......mixed views as always on the internet though so might just leave it for now as some people say it might be toxic ?

I have OSR on the doorstep and when it finished the field became covered in daisies of some sort that the bees went mad for.
1323

Now :(
1324

I'll get some before / after pics of the garden after all the planting to be done....

[Trog]

There is a weed clearing concept in Permaculture called 'chicken tractor'
If you leave your chooks to scratch around for long enough they will clear everything.

Unfortunately they don't know when to stop and will carry on clearing everything you plant, given half a chance ;)

[greengumbo]

So much for getting the bareroot trees and hedging in ! Haven't even seen the ground for a week now that its blanketed in snow !

13301331

[greengumbo]

Got my trees and hedging in finally ! Worked in a lot of compost into the hedging trench and in the holes for the trees. The clay was a bit claggy but not as bad as I feared.

At least they are in....phew. When they were delivered I was really impressed with the fruit tree maidens. I expected wee puny things but some were about 8' tall !

The rhubarb crown looked rotten on one side though so I took a few pics and planted it but sent the pics to the company that supplied.