Countryfile and friendly bees

[kevboab]

A nice wee reminder that when going near bees a veil should be worn to avoid the disfiguring facial stings. I dont care if I look like a toxic waste remover. Pmsl.

[The Drone Ranger]

That woman is/was nutter she even made the hive from Bullshit literally
She never inspects the bees for disease or problems
I'm thinking of just giving up beekeeping and leaving it to the nutjobs to get on with it lets see how far they get
Natural beekeeping my ass
Countryfile should hang it's head in shame
Television reaches new levels of ignorance

[Jon]

One of the myths put out by the 'natural' beekeepers is that putting them in a different shaped box such as a warre or a TBH takes the malevolence out of them.

Read this (http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13700) for a reality check.

Bad bees are bad bees no matter what container they are in. Squashing the queen and replacing her is the way to go - a concept some of us know as bee improvement.

learning how to handle bees gently is the way to go and good stock will hardly notice the intrusion.
Encouraging people to walk around without a veil on beside colonies of bees is reckless.
Ok. I do it with my own bees but not if I have to open boxes and take frames out.

[gavin]

When someone says 'PMSL' I have to have a look! Nice to see Drone Ranger so animated. Someone needs to talk to these journalists/reporters.

[Jon]

The link is up (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nn0w4/Countryfile_21_10_2012/) now.

Scroll to minute 38

[GRIZZLY]

No matter how you try to educate people about safe and practical beekeeping , it only takes one rubbish programme item such as this weeks Country File to undermine common sense. I agree entirely with drone ranger and compliment him on his use of moderate language when faced with such a muppet.Julia Bradbury should have been advised about the perils of approaching bees without suitable protection.What would the Beeb have done if she had gone into anaphalatic shock I wonder.

[Neils]

I never knew country file had turned into a sit com, shame they went with such a predictable plot.

I'm disappointed that they parroted the usual sanctimonious twaddle about Beekeepers not blessed with sticking a cow horn where the sun doesn't shine taking all the honey and feeding syrup instead.

Congratulations to DR for being the first to give that hive the name I suspect it will rapidly become known as outside of la-la land.

[Jon]

Dung-ho beekeeping allright.

[Poly Hive]

My main issues are two of.

One. No PPE. Bloody iresponsible and duly paid for. Now if she had gone into shock and died......

Two. Sweeping statement. "The bees are sick" OH?

My bees certainly are not, and apart from varroa, have, if any, the self same diseases as over 100 years ago.

Complete rubbish pushed as a factual story. And worse I helped pay for it!

PH
__________________

[Trog]

Someone tell me I didn't see crystals by the 'hive' entrance in that last shot .... please?

So this natural beekeeper wants the bees to return to the health they enjoyed 100 years ago? That'll be when most of them were wiped out by Isle of Wight disease, I suppose. She's certainly going the right way about it if that's what she's after.

[Bumble]

Someone tell me I didn't see crystals by the 'hive' entrance in that last shot .... please?

So this natural beekeeper wants the bees to return to the health they enjoyed 100 years ago? That'll be when most of them were wiped out by Isle of Wight disease, I suppose. She's certainly going the right way about it if that's what she's after.

Yes you did see crystals, and beat me too it with reference to Isle of Wight Disease.

She didn't say what happened to the bees in the hive she opened up. The wax looked remarkably new, and empty of bees.

[The Drone Ranger]

Yes you did see crystals, and beat me too it with reference to Isle of Wight Disease.

She didn't say what happened to the bees in the hive she opened up. The wax looked remarkably new, and empty of bees.

They flew off in a giant swarm with Wendy and Peter to Neverland
Hive is to be restocked next year with Dung beetles

[Jimbo]

Anybody know where I can buy some of those magic crystals so I can protect my bees from varroa?

[Jon]

Anybody know where I can buy some of those magic crystals so I can protect my bees from varroa?

http://www.naturalbeekeepingtrust.org/

[Neils]

Yet another "natural" organisation where the first thing on the page that loads is a donate button.

If I were more cynical I might opine that most of these "natural" organisations are peddling this twaddle because it sounds good and gets people to open their wallets.

[marion.orca]

Just caught up with the programme and had to laugh at the emphasis she made on the " no honey " - Who in their right mind would want to eat honey, which is most probably unfit for human consumption, being just above a dried out cow pat ? Would that not also attract a whole host of undesirable creatures, which would just make the bees work twice as hard at defending their stores ? So it is hardly surprising that Julia Bradbury was stung and shame on the BBC [ yes, yet more shame ] on putting one of their presenters in that position in the first place.

[Jon]

As far as I can see the more successful 'natural' or non treatment beekeepers are those who manage to keep their bees alive.
Michael Bush is one of the few who has managed it consistently and he puts his success down to small cell even though that has been debunked over and over in properly controlled studies. Something is working in his setup but it's hard to put your finger on it.
I notice in one of the videos on the naturalbeekeeping site that earlier in the year there were bees in the sun hive which she was demonstrating empty to the Countryfile presenter.
Most of the other videos seem to feature swarm collection, most of which looked like small casts.
The apple blossom was out so they must have been swarming from April.

Surplus honey is a pipe dream for most 'natural' beekeepers, dung tainted or dung free.
Read biobees.com for a flavour. For many of the beekeepers it is a struggle trying to keep the colony alive with no varroa control or less than optimal varroa control.
The aims are laudable but reality can be cruel.

[chris]

Yet another "natural" organisation where the first thing on the page that loads is a donate button.

If I were more cynical I might opine that most of these "natural" organisations are peddling this twaddle because it sounds good and gets people to open their wallets.

Not to mention:
"The workshops are priced at £120 per weekend, to include organic lunch and refreshments. The wooden hoop frames and support structures will be available ready-made and may be purchased separately. The complete set of wooden parts costs £100.
A book in English about the Sun Hive is now available to purchase via mail order. The book includes detailed plans on how to make your own Sun Hive. A limited number of complete Sun Hives are also available to purchase."

As for the hives, it is important not to confuse bullsh*t with cow pat. The latter are a classic *binder* for rye straw in biodynamic hives.

[prakel]

Michael Bush is one of the few who has managed it consistently and he puts his success down to small cell even though that has been debunked over and over in properly controlled studies. Something is working in his setup but it's hard to put your finger on it.

This is the thing isn't it, something is working -but apparently not in the UK! There seems to be plenty of people such as Michael Bush, Kirk Webster, Daniel Weaver and John Kefuss not to mention our own Chris who are getting by just fine without treatments. Some of them such as Weaver and Kefuss on a very large scale.

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The usual story, perhaps with Chris' exception -at least I can't remember him ever mentioning this possibly because like the South African beekeepers he never treated to begin with- is that when treatments are withdrawn there starts a cycle of collapse and regrowth. It's invariably not just the one massive collapse but a series of progressively smaller collapses over a period (usually) of up to ten years.

I know that a lot of people get very heated over this subject but I for one would rather try to understand what's going on than to dismiss the people who claim to be succeeding. Actually that would be tantamount to calling them liars; something I'm not prepared to do either in person or from behind a keyboard.

The sad thing is that while people such as Kefuss, Weaver and Webster write little and shout less a lot of the people that do, the one's who beat the loudest drum about 'natural' beekeeping, come across as not having a clue about any kind of beekeeping.

[Jon]

but I for one would rather try to understand what's going on than to dismiss the people who claim to be succeeding

Me too, and I have the greatest respect for Michael Bush who is one of the most helpful posters/contributors on the internet.

The trouble is that the vast majority seem to be struggling, and those who lose their bees tend to keep quiet about it, whereas those who have more success are more likely to let others know. Same in any walk of life I suppose.
Phil Chandler was honest enough to admit that he has been wiped out by varroa three times and he does come across as more realistic than a lot of the other posters on his site.
In this sense it is hard to get an idea of the success rate of 'natural' or non treatment beekeeping but I suspect that it is low.
the other issue is the evangelists for the cause who find it difficult to take an impartial view on issues like small cell, hive type, varroa treatment, non intervention and all the other issues around 'natural' beekeeping.

[prakel]

For the record, I've just got around to watching the piece in question on iplayer and am left somewhat surprised (having read some of the threads elsewhere and a few of the posts here) at how inoffensive I actually found it. OK there are some issues about sick bees (or not) but we're pretty used to that by now, surely.

I would actually suggest that the way the sting was dealt with (even if it followed some rather rash behaviour and statements about how friendly the bees are, why wouldn't they be?) probably did more good than harm. No hysterics or undue panic. Dealt with as sensibly as the circumstances allowed.

[Neils]

Far too calm and reasoned :)

I think once the usual fallacious statements about "conventional beekeeping" were trotted out by the country file presenter as well as floaty lady I'll be quite honest and admit that I was waiting for something interesting to happen. Soon as they stuck her by the hive entrance it was obvious what was going to happen; a veil, let alone a 'chemical warfare suit' would have prevented that, but the running commentary leading up to the inevitable just made it all the more entertaining.

I don't mind people prattling on about their magic beehives in the slightest, but when there's more of the stuff trotted out as "fact" than was smothered on the hive itself then I think the level of glee at the conclusion of the article is perhaps understandable.

[prakel]

the running commentary leading up to the inevitable just made it all the more entertaining.

Must admit, you couldn't have made it up.

[Trog]

Having seen (many more years ago than I care to remember) a chemical warfare suit demonstrated, I wonder how many beekeepers do actually wear one? Even on the ill-natured bees we learnt with in Hampshire, jacket, veil and gloves were all that was required (plus the occasional long walk through the woods to shake off the followers). Yet another use of inaccurate emotive associations by the new agey touchy-feelies. I'm beginning rather to resent their attacks on ordinary beekeepers. We've increased our colonies, sold nucs and gained a big crop of the best-tasting honey we've had for years. Neither a crystal nor a cowpat in sight, nor do we have to consult special charts before deciding what to do with bees or plants. As for cruelty, nobody mentioned the fate of the poor bee that stung the presenter. Had the presenter been properly protected with a veil, the bee need not have died! [not sure where to find an ironic smiley but would insert one here ..]

[Jon]

Had the presenter been properly protected with a veil, the bee need not have died!
Karma dictates that the bee may well be reincarnated as a BBC presenter in its next life.

[The Drone Ranger]

For the record, I've just got around to watching the piece in question on iplayer and am left somewhat surprised (having read some of the threads elsewhere and a few of the posts here) at how inoffensive I actually found it. OK there are some issues about sick bees (or not) but we're pretty used to that by now, surely.

I would actually suggest that the way the sting was dealt with (even if it followed some rather rash behaviour and statements about how friendly the bees are, why wouldn't they be?) probably did more good than harm. No hysterics or undue panic. Dealt with as sensibly as the circumstances allowed.

Here's a link to Rob Dartington on you tube a real beekeeper with alternative views and a jolly nice chap to boot
Don't agree with letting the queen in the supers though for three reasons
Taste of honey
bees can't store honey where they put brood so wasted comb space
Any supers that have had brood are vunerable to wax moth in store shed normally they would be safe

Still a good little video though -- The beehaus is not my cup of tea but it does make lots of sense unlike most alternative beekeeping lunacy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xs_OVl25lw&feature=relate

[lindsay s]

If you can tear yourself away from Pudsey Bear on Friday night here’s a link to what’s on Landward at 7:00pm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01p09b9

[prakel]

If you can tear yourself away from Pudsey Bear on Friday night here’s a link to what’s on Landward at 7:00pm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01p09b9

Does this programme make it to iplayer etc?

[gavin]

Should do. Looks to be taking a visit to Heather Hills (http://www.heather-hills.com/), one of Tayside's bee farming enterprises.

[gavin]

Always preferred Landward to Countryfile. Not just because I've been on a couple of times! Missed the broadcast last night (was out talking to one of Heather Hills' competitors) but just watched it now. The bee item is first up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01p09b9/Landward_2012_2013_Episode_21/

The piece features some gratuitious smoking - not sure why he has to do that. Its just 'what beekeepers do', so maybe he feels the need. I wouldn't even light the smoker to shift bees, just go in quietly.

Do stick with it for the Doric unaccompanied signing half way through.

[GRIZZLY]

I noticed yet anotherr BBC presenter getting stung. With the cut backs it would seem the Beeb can't afford a pair of wellies. What a farce.

[Black Comb]

I think he just liked playing with the smoker. Perhaps he felt it wold give him more protection.
Nice little piece.

[Bridget]

Yes agree about the smoker, security blanket of smoke. Silly to get stung though, lazy work by the costume department, presumably they are all rented out to Strictly to sew on the beads and sequins.


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[Neils]

Refreshingly different, judicious use of smokers not withstanding. Difficulties down to the weather? surely not. DO think they missed an opportunity to some extent, but it was pretty interesting without needing to resort to hyperbole.

[gavin]

It was indeed (refreshingly different). For those not up to speed with 1980s Scottish pop culture, the presenter Dougie Vipond, also doing football programmes on the telly, first forged his way in the world behind the drum kit of Deacon Blue. Just thought you'd like to know. You can catch his phizog around 2:18 and elsewhere.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mKnMTU5A4I

[Neils]

Blimey, I'd forgotten about about them.

[Jimbo]

In my other life as a Kayak instructor based in Glasgow I was asked by BBC Scotland and The Forth & Clyde canal group if I could arrange a kakak session for an ouitdoor piece they wanted to film. On the day of the filming the crew turned up with Dougie Vipond. It was a windy day and after one of the camera men had to be taken to A&E after getting some dust in his eye we got down to the safety talk and what to do in the event of a capsize. Dougie was all dressed in denin which is not that good a material for kayaking in but he insisted in looking cool. At one point I refused to take him on the canal unless he at least wore the bouyancy aid. The shot all set up and Dougie proceeded to be paddling through the new canal bridge at Firhill but with the wind it was like a wind tunnel so he shot through too fast. So it was cut and had to be done again this time with me attached with a rope to the back of his Kayak and back paddling to slow him down. One of my instructions was to keep looking ahead but as Dougie passed the camera he continued to look into the lens. You guessed it he went for a swim. After fishing him out. It was not that easy with all that wet denin the crew decided they had enough. The excuse was they could not risk getting another expensive radio mic wet not the fact that Dougie was standing on the bank getting hypothermia. To this day I watch all the tv takeout and bloomers to see if the clip ever appears.