Why am I not allowed to post a petition for our site visitors?

[Stromnessbees]

I posted a petition against neonics in our environmental subforum.

As I also want to give the public a chance to see this petition I posted it in the public section as well, with an explanatory text:


http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/images/icons/icon4.png Please sign this petition to ban neonicotionoid pesticides to help us save the bees!

Thank you for coming to this page to support the bees.

You might have heard about the wor d wide bee decline which has accelerated massively over the last few years.
This bee decline has been linked to new systemic pesticides which are highly toxic to bees as they destroy their immune system, and colonies often just dwindle away as the bees leave their hives to die.

This is a petition that is urging the government to protect our bees from these pesticides, please sign and spread!


Bee deaths caused by insecticides

Responsible department: Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

The ecosystem services of bees are critical to human survival through crop pollination. The contribution by bees to UK agriculture is approx £200million. Bee colony deaths are being caused by neonicotinoid pesticides, the Goverment should either heavily restrict or entirely ban the use of these chemicals in the UK.


This was considered a duplicate post even though the text was quite different, and and it was purely for the benefit of our site visitors.

After this post was deleted I posted a completely different petition for signing, again in the public subforum:

http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/images/icons/icon4.png Please sign this Avaaz petition to Bayer against neonicotionoid pesticides!

Thank you for coming to this page to support the bees.

You might have heard about the world wide bee decline which has accelerated massively over the last few years.This bee decline has been linked to new systemic pesticides which are highly toxic to bees as they destroy their immune system, and colonies often just dwindle away as the bees leave their hives to die.


To Bayer shareholders:
We call on you to vote to stop production and sale of neonicotinoid pesticides until and unless new independent scientific studies prove they are safe. The catastrophic demise of bee colonies could put our whole food chain in danger. If you act urgently with precaution now, we could save bees from extinction.

Again it was deleted.:(


I think at least the deletion of my second post must have been due to a misunderstanding as it was for a completely different petition.

I will try again to post it in the public subforum and hope it won't be deleted again. :)

Doris

[Neils]

Because you have essentially the same thread in the environment sub forum. There's no need nor reason to create duplicate posts. If there are multiple petitions for the same thing, I'd suggest putting them both in your existing thread that already covers the subject.

If you'd rather the thread was in the public forum then I'm quite happy to move it there but I will continue to remove duplicate posts from the forum.

[gavin]

The public can read the entire site. Pesticide campaigning posts ought to be in the environment sub-forum and we should continue with our policy to restrict them to there so that the rest of the users of the site can ignore them more easily if they wish. Doris - for now - can continue to post but as she has and is using the site simply as a campaigning vehicle I've restricted the things that she can do on the forum.

[Stromnessbees]

Nellie, the first petition is addressed to the government.
The second petition is addressed to the Bayer shareholders.

Also, do you not want to give our visitors the chance to voice their concerns?
Doris

[Stromnessbees]

The public can read the entire site. Pesticide campaigning posts ought to be in the environment sub-forum and we should continue with our policy to restrict them to there so that the rest of the users of the site can ignore them more easily if they wish. Doris - for now - can continue to post but as she has and is using the site simply as a campaigning vehicle I've restricted the things that she can do on the forum.

A gagging order?

[gavin]

No, a means of dealing with someone who has been out of order on too many occasions whilst still letting them have their say. The gagging order comes when I press the 'Ban' button.

[Neils]

Nellie, the first petition is addressed to the government.
The second petition is addressed to the Bayer shareholders.

Also, do you not want to give our visitors the chance to voice their concerns?
Doris
They can, you already have a thread covering the topic in the Environment sub forum. If someone wants to voice their concerns they're probably better off talking directly to their MP or Bayer rather than on a beekeeping forum where they're essentially preaching to the choir, but I digress, they need only register an account and they are welcome to do so.

That would also be true of the Public forum which exists as a separate category purely to make it obvious to the Forum community that a non-beekeeper is asking question about Bees.

[Jon]

Hi Doris. It would be nice if you came back to the forum to talk about beekeeping rather than the pesticide hobbyhorse as you used to have a lot to contribute re. the humble honeybee. How was the season on Orkney?

[gavin]

http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13557




Who would think this is possible?

... A beekeeping forum in the UK that restricts its members for speaking out against pesticides.

I know it has happened on the BBKA forum already, but now the SBAi forum is coming down hard on those who try to raise the pesticide issue.

I have just been restricted in my posting in that every one of my posts has now to be approved by a moderator before it will be displayed on the forum.

And all that just because I wanted to post a petition against neonic pesticides in the area of the forum that is for the public.

Here is what Gavin Ramsay (site admin) wrote:

Quote:
(Pesticide campaigning posts ought to be in the environment sub-forum and we should continue with our policy to restrict them to there so that the rest of the users of the site can ignore them more easily if they wish. Doris - for now - can continue to post but as she has and is using the site simply as a campaigning vehicle I've restricted the things that she can do on the forum.
http://www.sbai.org.uk/sbai_forum/showthread.php?1073-Why-am-I-not-allowed-to-post-a-petition-for-our-site-visitors&p=13654#post13654

This shows clearly what Gavin wants most of all: that concerns raised over pesticides get ignored!


I don't think i want to continue posting on that forum with such restrictions in place and with the attitude of the site admin displayed so clearly.

I just wonder what the Scottish Beekeeping Association will have to say to this, as the forum carries their name and logo.
Confused


Doris

Can I have a retraction and an apology, please? Your bad behaviour on here has been plain for all to see. Despite the trouble you have caused this forum and the bad mouthing of us in various places on the internet you are still allowed to post. You posts are not subjected to moderation as far as I know, though I have now prevented you from posting more site polls and some time ago we stopped you posting comments in the 'News' part of the site because of your abuse of that privilege.

Gavin

[marion.orca]

My view of a forum is that it is for sharing experiences, helping others, and general beekeeping " tips and tricks", which all go to helping one another. A beekeeping forum is not the place to drum up any sort of support for pesticides, nor any campaign. Try Facebook for that. I admire your patience Gavin of not hitting the " ban" button, having read previous posts.

[Neils]

After some discussion I offer my apologies.

Consensus of opinion is that pesticide topics live in the environment sub forum and the public sub forum is for non Beekeepers to ask questions or advice regarding bees.

The entire forum is viewable without requiring registration so the topic is freely available (and indexed by search engines) to anyone who wants to read or contribute to it.

But again my apologies for making an offer that I now cannot oblige.

[HJBee]

Personally until there is greater clarity and consensus on the Neo'cide issue - I'm yet to be persuaded that they are worse than the obvious alternatives, I would not be comfortable that a few people's views on the matter being portrayed as the entire SBAi contingents view as that is what it would be seen to be an SBAi petition.

[gavin]

The SBAi poll that she set up is just silly. Most people will see through the loaded questions and give it a body swerve.

[Phil McAnespie]

I have to confess that my visitation to the forum is usually quite limited because of the restraints of time and expertise. I may possibly be posting this comment on the wrong page and if so I do apologise.
My attention was brought to this thread in the forum by a beekeeping colleague in my area who feels like me that there are far to many personal comments made and aimed at identified people.
As the president of the national association I am very concerned that we stand up for beekeeping in an appropriate manner and voice our intelligent and fact based opinions in the correct manner and place. That is why I and other executive members travel many miles to attend meetings on behalf of the SBA and discuss with relevant agencies and organisations matters which affect beekeeping particularly in Scotland.

I am well aware of the alleged issues relating to various chemical compounds and am also aware that there are organisations looking into these matters. the European food Standards Agency has recently asked for the opinions of the national associations while they are looking into testing protocols and other matters. These matters are also being discussed at the European Commission together with issues relating to GM pollen.
What I am keen to further is to look at all these matters in the light of evidence and fact. There is a huge amount of information on the web and other sources and to say that all is correct and evidence based would be delusional. As a consequence I am definitely on the side of discussing matters from an evidence led basis.

In respect of my colleague Gavin, I can unequivocally say that I believe he looks at matters in exactly the same way. I will make myself extremely clear and say that I am not coming down on any side as far as the chemical question is concerned but in accordance with my 30 odd years of training I am a person who will look at an evidence based discussion and make a decision from there. My personal view at present is that there is evidence of bee health issues where misuse of these compounds has occurred but at present I have yet to find conclusive proof in all other cases.

As such when people use the SBAi forum to promote personal views and do so in what appears to be the wrong location and manner I give my support to Gavin and his colleagues who administer this forum for the SBA. I am a great believer in trying to be pleasant to people at all times and see no justification to be verbally abusive or condemnatory to them in any manner.
I can assure forum users that I have discussed the forum with Gavin and his team on several occasions and feel that they are doing an excellent job for the SBA. I hold a very strong view that the SBA name should be upheld at all times and should not be the subject of ridicule nor led into a position where law suits may occur. Gavin and his team are well aware of this view and I have every confidence that this forum is moderated accordingly.

Phil McAnespie
President. SBA

[GRIZZLY]

Hear hear Phil !.

[GRIZZLY]

Hear hear Phil !.

[Poly Hive]

The sad thing is that this sort of behaviour is so typical of the anti camp. They trot around the net posting here and there, and everywhere they can instead of focusing on the real target. Worse they bore people to death and with the frantic tone to the posts, dare I use the hysterical word? They turn the off switch for far far more than they intrigue. Any basic political tactician knows better.

As for bees on Orkney, in two weeks in late June and early July on the main island we saw not one honey bee, and no evidence in the shops of beekeepers selling produce of any sort at all. We asked about local beekeepers and got that thoughtful far away look that said the memory bank was being dredged, and then the slow shake of the head. No beekeeping known of. No honey, no candles, no mead, no produce at all in the shops. Sad. My old mentor in Ross-Shire was even more surprised as he sponsored a person into the BFA but that enterprise in the islands seems to have gone by the wayside too.

I admire your restraint Gavin I am not so sure I could resist the "B" button.

PH

[gavin]

Maybe she wanted to be banned - she certainly went off quickly to complain on biobees - and that thought makes it easier to hold off. Chandler is making himself look very silly with his accusations of bullying.

Sent from my BlackBerry 8520 using Tapatalk

[madasafish]

The sad thing is that this sort of behaviour is so typical of the anti camp. They trot around the net posting here and there, and everywhere they can instead of focusing on the real target. Worse they bore people to death and with the frantic tone to the posts, dare I use the hysterical word? They turn the off switch for far far more than they intrigue. Any basic political tactician knows better.


PH

+1

Self defeating. I was going to add "strategy" but I don't think they have a clue..

As for biobees, I have given up as they appear to have taken up population control and saving the planet and badgers. All very worthy no doubt.

[chris]

As for biobees, I have given up as they appear to have taken up population control and saving the planet and badgers. .

Rather unfair. They also have some excellent advice on how to lose a colony.

[Jon]

And when you lose a colony you can blame it on the hapless farmer who has a field of oil seed rape a couple of miles away.

If I lost bees as often as some of the devotees appear to do, I would be looking at my own practice.
The last major problem I had was a couple of winters ago when I lost about 6 nucs to what I suspect was nosema, and I think I have got on top of that by feeding a little thymolated syrup in the autumn.

But yes, howling at the moon is easier than facing up to your own mistakes or misconceptions.


As for bees on Orkney...

There were quite a number of colonies and quite a few beekeepers last year so I imagine they still have quite a few on the islands.
Lindsay probably could make a reasonable estimate.

[madasafish]

My personal view - and I emphasise the personal aspect - is that a site like biobees tends to attract those on the fringes of beekeeping and the followers of outre ideas. Nothing wrong with those people but unchecked they can easily dilute the message about beekeeping.. Which is what in my view is in danger of happening.

Please note my very careful choice of words and descriptions in my first sentence: I do not wish to denigrate those with non mainline opinions. They can, however, be disruptive at times.

[Jimbo]

As for the bees on Orkney, well quite a few colonies are native Amm as I checked the wing morphometry and still varroa free.
I think we should start a petition to keep them that way.

[Adam]

I admire your restraint too Gavin. A few months ago there was someone who posted in every sub forum on the BBKA forum and he just looked like a pillock, so restraint from the moderator can work. Over-posting on single issues can counter-productive and does the poster and their cause no good.

[Adam]

As for the bees on Orkney, well quite a few colonies are native Amm as I checked the wing morphometry and still varroa free.
I think we should start a petition to keep them that way.


I agree with Jimbo, a varroa free AMM reserve on Orkney is a Good Thing and should be preserved.

[Jimbo]

Don't forget Mull, Colonsay etc

[gavin]

I have to admit that there were times when the restraint came from fellow moderators. It is good practice to avoid making such decisions when you are the one being subjected to the heat.

[Neils]

I'm pretty sure I already apologised for that :D

[Adam]

Many of us witnesses the bombardment of the BBKA forum by 'various parties' a few years ago and there was some criticism of over-moderation at the time (although I think much was justified).
It was interesting that some of the 'tree-hugging, love bees, wear sandals knitted with yoghurt' brigade turned into vindictive nasty people. That's my memory of them now - even if it was just a few diehards.

madasafish, I agree with you, I am happy with people having alternative views. It's good to challenge orthodoxy. (Just depends on how it's done :))

[Adam]

Don't forget Mull, Colonsay etc


Of course.
I feel something from Monty Python coming on :) :)

[Poly Hive]

You are so very right Adam. It actually cost me the moderation position I was doing at the time as a certain person failed utterly to understand what was going on and when I created an alias to demonstrate to him the reality of the attack he sacked me. LOL

Then as the onslaught continued and intensified I had an excellent laugh when he had to ban dear bio toxic.

Ah well if nothing else it more than convinced me that a certain organisation is over populated with the not quite with it brigade.

If dear toxic is coming under pressure from all the fringe anti everything brigade then I raises me glass and thinks happy thoughts about petards. ;)

PH